Golden/West Denver Climbing Gym???

Why is there not a good climbing gym on the west side of Denver/Golden Area?

It would be really nice to have one on the west side of town. With the increasing traffic, getting to either of the R&J's (or the other gyms) is increasingly problematic. I pretty much stopped going to R&J North last winter because it took me 1+ hours to get there from my job at Denver West.

There is a good climbing gym in Golden. It's called Clear Creek Canyon.

Good point, Lee. Lets meet at Little Eiger in an hour. As soon as I finish shoveling the walks.

OK, here would be some of the reasons why I think you won't be seeing a west-side gym anytime soon:

• As Lee points out: Clear Creek, Table and Morrison.
• Demographics: west Denver really means Lakewood, I think the youngest person who lives there is 58. A new gym just about anywhere is totally reliant on suburban school kids for a revenue stream.
• Property value: There are very few warehouse/commercial zones that aren't already built out, and I can't think of any existing tall buildings that would work. Right now, any open land that you could build a new building on would be costly.
• A climbing gym is very expensive to develop. Tall structures are costly, then there's all that framing inside. Getting a permit - especially in JeffCo which has a more anal than normal building dept. - will take a lot of someone's time (design fees). Then you have the epoxy texturing, 1000's of holds, liability insurance, property insurance and taxes, payroll, heating/cooling overhead,.....

Someone needs to see net investment value after all of this.

I get to go the the new sixty foot wall at the Mines campus. Its a lead wall but they dont have lead ropes =(. Lakewood climbing is pretty good (at the Charels Whitlock Center on colfax and dover, or the Lakewood Link at missisipi and reed).

Hey Kevin,

I work in Denver West too. I agree about Clear Creek and North Table being the gyms, but not when it gets dark at 5:30pm. I would think with golden, lakewood, morrison, evergreen, etc. could make for a great base of climbers. Somebody with a lot of money and ambition should capitlize on the opportunity or persuade one of the existing gyms to expand to the west.

coop

Yeah, the mines wall is pretty good but the lead/no lead is pretty amusing. I think they are disorganized and don't know what they are doing.

Kyle Douglass wrote:I get to go the the new sixty foot wall at the Mines campus. Its a lead wall but they dont have lead ropes =(. Lakewood climbing is pretty good (at the Charels Whitlock Center on colfax and dover, or the Lakewood Link at missisipi and reed).

Looking at all the new housing development around and north/northeast of Golden, I think there would be plenty of suburban school kids to support a gym.

Warehouse space or somewhere to build a new tall structure is a potential issue though I agree. Don't know about JeffCo's building dept but I'll take someone else's word on that. If I had the bucks, I'd sure look into doing it. Seems like a pretty obvious business opportunity and I'm quite sure there's a large enough climber base to support it who are tired of fighting I-70 traffic in the winter to gym climb.

OTOH, there's a number of small walls associated with "regular" gyms and rec centers in the area (The Point, Apex Center, Golden Rec Center, CSM, Lakeshore, etc.) that might cut into the market. The terrain and route-setting in these places generally can't compete with a "real" gym in my experience, but to some folks that might not matter enough to pay for a "real" gym.

FYI, there’s a great 35 foot climbing wall at “The Ridge” recreation center in southwest Denver (approx. C-470 and Bowles) – the wall, along with pools, gymnasium, racquetball courts, etc. is operated by the Foothills Park and Recreation District. The cost to climb the wall is reasonable - $5.25 for adults, $3.25 for kids.

Unfortunately, the climbing wall and some other programs had to be closed for an unknown amount of time because the Foothills District is operating in the red. They’ve been making cuts in staffing and operations for the past 6 years, but the cost of operating these gyms (heating, lighting, etc.) is rising, and it’s difficult for them to maintain the standard everyone expects.

In Nov 2006, Foothills asked the residents of their district for a tax increase, but it failed by a narrow margin 52% to 48%. Bummer! It probably failed because nobody was aware of it.

They’ll be asking for a tax increase again in May 2008, in the hopes that it will pass and they can get some extra funds to keep these great facilities operating.

Bottom line, if you happen to live in southwest Denver within the Foothills District, please consider voting “yes” for the mill levy increase in May 2008 (the cost of the increase depends on your home value, for example a $200,000 home would be an increase of $47/year).

Also, if anyone knows of a group that would be interested in using this climbing wall for their programs, please reply. Foothills is looking for ideas to boost attendance and usage of the wall if it can open in the future.

I’m just a climber that uses this wall often to stay in 5.10 shape. I’m sad to see it closed.

You know, there are tons of empty spaces all over the place in retail centers. If the concept of bouldering gyms took off better (its all about strength and conditioning), we could have a lot more to choose from. I wonder if there's enough of a base to support this outside of Boulder. Without the ropes, you take out some of the simulated climbing experience. You're left with more of a "workout for better performance" concept than simply having fun. That drops your potential base down quite a bit because then you are targeting a more specific crowd.

Now, lets say that there's enough climbers in the west side to support a gym; but no Sugar Daddy investor to come along and bless you with a new amenity. Consider this: open a co-op bouldering gym in a vacant retail spot. Work the numbers: a one year lease, x-amount for the structure, holds, mats, etc., some energy (heating/cooling/lights), whatever else, and divide by the number of participants. As long as you're not running a business you avoid a lot of costs. Everyone involved is on the hook for just a year if it becomes too much a pain in the ass. But if people are lining up to pay into the co-op, then maybe you've identified enough support for a real commercial gym.

All this would take is $'s, sweat, and some leadership.

From what I ?recall?, there used to be a small wall at the ?Golden Rec Center?. There is a tiny wall at the ?AAC/CMC? building. There was or is a bit of indoor climbing at the ?Lakewood Link? & ?Lakewood The Point Athletic Club?.

Leo Paik wrote:From what I ?recall?, there used to be a small wall at the ?Golden Rec Center?. There is a tiny wall at the ?AAC/CMC? building. There was or is a bit of indoor climbing at the ?Lakewood Link? & ?Lakewood The Point Athletic Club?.

Uuuuhhh, didn't I just say that?

Problem with all these is that they either don't have a lot of varied terrain, aren't set up for leading (AAC/CMC wall), only have 2 or 3 lead routes (most of the rest), and/or IMHO have inferior route-setting.

If they were equivalent to R&J, Paradise, etc. folks like COOP and I from the west side wouldn't be whining about the lack of a western gym.

As for the bouldering co-op, I consider myself a pretty serious climber and I doubt that I would join such a co-op. Honestly bouldering just doesn't "do it" for me. For one thing what bouldering I've done and seen has a large strength component (especially finger strength). For us "mature" climbers, that's a lot of risk for injury. I prefer to focus on technique that can substitute for raw strength since I'll never be a 2% body-fat dime-crimping hone-master. Add to that the risk of a bad/awkward landing and it's more risk than I want to take in training - climbing is one thing, training is another. Also, it's just not the same experience - gym climbing is a big compromise, bouldering even more so.

EDIT: For the euphemistically-impaired... "mature" = "old" Didn't want anyone to think I was dis-ing them as being immature.

Kevin-
Everything you just stated about bouldering, gyms, being mature applies to me as well. The mere thought of a plastic-bouldering session makes my joints ache. As for me, my gym dollars go to 24Hr. Fitness. My hangboard sees zero use, and I've got a bucketful of holds in my garage that has sat there for 2 years. 15 years ago I was number driven and really had no life; now there is no way what little bit of free time I have would go into an effort such as this.

I just don't think climbing gyms are really all that attractive to investors. All the main ones around here are run by climbers who probably could've seen better returns with different investments.

Just offering some "out of the box" bloviation. But I still think if the right people gave this some thought, there's a small chance it could turn into something.

There is a fitness center located off of 6th and Simms called The Point. There wall was descent when I went there a few years back. I don't recall any lead routes though. I am looking for a partner to go there at lunch once per week during the fall/winter. Any of you Denver West folks interested?

I might be up for that to get out of the office. Do you know the fee?

Tracy Roach wrote:There is a fitness center located off of 6th and Simms called The Point. There wall was descent when I went there a few years back. I don't recall any lead routes though. I am looking for a partner to go there at lunch once per week during the fall/winter. Any of you Denver West folks interested?

coop wrote:I might be up for that to get out of the office. Do you know the fee?

Expensive!!! It's close to $15 from what I remember. Also the routes there were just horrible from what I remember. Lakewood walls are the way to go for cheap gym climbing ($5.oo).

sean connors wrote: Expensive!!! It's close to $15 from what I remember. Also the routes there were just horrible from what I remember. Lakewood walls are the way to go for cheap gym climbing ($5.oo).

Sounds right to me. We used to belong there several years ago and it was $13 back then IIRC. I did all my indoor climbing at R&J when we belonged to The Point.

Problem with most (probably not all) "regular" gym/rec center walls is that they can't attract/retain quality route-setters and eventually become the "property" of a small group who set only to their own strenths/interests. The wall at Lakeshore for e.g. has become the province of 105 lb. gym-kiddies. The routes climb like 50' boulder problems including (no kidding) a required figure-4 at the top of one of the 2 lead routes (I think it's a "5.9" or "5.10"). Guess what? Hardly anyone climbs there despite it being the tallest wall in Denver. The management probably thinks no one around here likes climbing. Go figure.

Mike Lane wrote:You know, there are tons of empty spaces all over the place in retail centers. If the concept of bouldering gyms took off better (its all about strength and conditioning), we could have a lot more to choose from. I wonder if there's enough of a base to support this outside of Boulder. Without the ropes, you take out some of the simulated climbing experience. You're left with more of a "workout for better performance" concept than simply having fun. That drops your potential base down quite a bit because then you are targeting a more specific crowd. Now, lets say that there's enough climbers in the west side to support a gym; but no Sugar Daddy investor to come along and bless you with a new amenity. Consider this: open a co-op bouldering gym in a vacant retail spot. Work the numbers: a one year lease, x-amount for the structure, holds, mats, etc., some energy (heating/cooling/lights), whatever else, and divide by the number of participants. As long as you're not running a business you avoid a lot of costs. Everyone involved is on the hook for just a year if it becomes too much a pain in the ass. But if people are lining up to pay into the co-op, then maybe you've identified enough support for a real commercial gym. All this would take is $'s, sweat, and some leadership.

Mike, I like your idea of a co-op climbing wall in west Denver. However, I wonder if it would be more practical to use an existing wall and make it better for whatever the community climbers are looking for. Kevin made some good points above about the drawbacks of rec center climbing walls. What if a rec center climbing wall could have good route setting, offer lead routes, offer varied terrain for different levels and skills, etc. Seems to me the walls are there (Lakewood's "Whitlock" and Foothills' "The Ridge"), its just that the climbers need to be pro-active in letting the rec centers know what they want, and maybe even help the rec centers to run a better wall.

Why try to start from scratch?

Rena, since I live in South Metro I was basically unaware of the several climbing wall options that were available. It sounded like zero options to me. There's several reasons why I mentioned the co-op concept. Back in the early 80's I spent 5 years and acquired a lot of student loan debt to get a degree in, well, Art. I was part of a group that were constantly referred to in media as "angry young punk-rock artists". We competed heavily and won on a regular basis. Being rather arrogant little pricks, we pretty much stopped attending classes in favor of breaking into the studio's at night. Mota, vino, cervesa, X and Dead Kennedy's until dawn. And forceful, opinionated arguments. It was that environment which inspired us with our works.

I could see the synergy that would come with creating your own training space as a much more powerful tool than the standard gym trips. I am of the opinion that if you are going to be in a gym, your heart rate should around 112 constantly with at least the occasional drop of sweat falling off of the nose. IMO, this only happens if you're not tying in, belaying or stumbling around half the time (which is what a typical gym outing consists of). This idea isn't for 99% of us - myself included. But if there were a group out there who could make it happen, it could become an epic venture. And possibly even lead to that "dream" business we all fantasize about.

Oh my god, why do I climb with such a hoodlum?
Just kidding UberMike.
I've got two of my grandkids this weekend.
Lindsey 13 and Andrew, soon to be 12. (age not climbing ability)
Any interest in getting out to The Wood with Chloe?

Looks like Sunday. Think the vipers are done for the year now?
PS: lets flip to e-mail, I've already botched this poor thread all to pieces. sorry coop.