Gear Review - Black Diamond ATC Guide

Black Diamond ATC Guide (7.7 mm to 11 mm): $24.95

Disclosure: Colorado Black Diamond Sales Rep provided this equipment free of charge.

Introduction
I’ve lost count of the number of belay/rappel devices I’ve lost, worn out or simply decided the time had came to pass company. I’ve had several different figure 8s, a number of Sticht plates, Lowe Tuber, BD ATCs, Petzl Reverso and Reversino, Trango Cinch, Petzl Grigri, as well as the standard collection of oval biners, large pear shape biners, and I've even used the Italian hitch when I wanted to really screw my rope!

Although each of them has in some way been an improvement, the quest for the ultimate belay/rappel device was still out of my grasp. I started this year favoring two devices: a Petzl Reverso and a Trango Cinch. As it would happen my Reverso was starting to show signs of “sharpening” when I found the ATC Guide on my front porch. Cool...

So let’s start with what Black Diamond states in their '06 catalog:

“One device to do it all, the new hot forged ATC Guide is a truly full function belay device offing the most versatility of any device on the market - dual friction and belay and rappel modes and a Guide Mode for belaying one or two seconding climbers. In Guide Mode, it locks if someone falls. Plus, due to the unique release point, you have the ability to lower a climber regardless of weight differences between the climber and the belayer. Capable of handling ropes from 7.7 mm to 11 mm in a variety of adverse situations.”

• Regular Friction Mode for normal climbing and rappelling
• High Friction Mode provides two times more friction for greater control and holding power
• In Guide Mode it locks if someone falls & has lowering capabilities
• Unique release point built into the unit

ATC Guide: $24.95
Weight: 103 grams, (3.6 oz)
Color: Anthracite.

First Looks
As you would expect from Black Diamond, the device is finished nicely. It’s super smooth with no sharp corners or edges. It looks like it has been tumbled for hours. It’s a little bit larger and weighs a little more than the Reverso (81 grams).

The device is designed to do everything and do it well, and thus it eliminates the need to carry extra gear. Although tube belay-rappel devices are generally simple pieces of gear, this one has features that aren’t all that apparent at first sight.

Belaying: Traditional
Ropes up to 10 mm fit the slots easily but once you exceed this diameter it can be a struggle to push the rope through. Especially, if the rope is new and somewhat stiff. However, once through the slots ropes up to 10.5 mm feed smoothly and don’t bind.

My main workhorse is a 10 mm, and it seemed to suit this diameter very well, and I had no problem feeding or taking in the rope. Midweek after work climbing sessions in Clear Creek Canyon, the ATC worked well holding falls and doing the sport climbing thing. I no longer used the Cinch. Once you have held a fall, it is very easy to lock it off, the ribbed slot provided plenty of friction which you can adjust easily by varying the angle as needed. If you want to really alter the characteristics of the friction, just swap it around so that the brake hand rope does not run through the high friction grooves.

Using it on narrow diameter ropes like an 9.1 mm single rope worked like a charm as well. It would feed easily and held short falls with out any slippage. I don’t own any skinnier ropes, so I wasn’t able to test it using using twins, etc.


Using the ATC Guide: Belay (Traditional Mode)

Belaying: Auto-block
Like the Reverso, one of the advantages of the ATC Guide is the option to use it as an auto-block belaying device if you wish. To do this, you simply attach the device to your anchor power point via the special clip in point (see picture below), and belay away.

To provide complete free range of movement try using an oval locking biner to attach the device to the power point. Just treat it like you would a pulley. The Petzl biner shown below displays a niffy red stripe when it's not locked!


Petzl OK Locking biner

If you need to release the auto-block, there is a small hole, which accepts a Dyneema sling that you can use as fulcrum to release the device. Maybe set it up prior to using it. I had mixed results with this depending on the weight and setup on the auto-block. Practicing it on my indoor wall, no problem. It worked like a charm, but in real life, I found it was difficult to master and required a fair bit of practice.

Important to note here is that although it wasn’t straightforward, it was still considerably easier than trying to do the same with the Reverso. The difficulty wasn’t so much releasing the weight, but rather controlling what happens next. You needed three hands....

For example, I loaded up my haul bag with practically everything I could cram into it and locked off the device. From a hanging belay, I tried to release it without success. I attached an aider to the end of the sling after it went through the pivot point to get some leverage. It worked, but it was hard work! If my feet were on a ledge, no problem.

A couple of times I experimented with the weighted rope backed up to a tied off Munter hitch. First, I released the weight on the auto-block, which would transfer the weight to the Munter hitch. Then I released that. It worked okay and I had consistent results.

The diagram below is from Black Diamond’s ATC Guide. Their recommendation is to use a sling that is connected to your harness. This method worked fine when you are standing on a ledge and you have room to move around, while at the same time can maintain a firm grip with your brake hand. Hopefully, people with my experience with this device will post up their results. I found it pretty awkward.


Black Diamond's instructions on using the auto-block supplied with the device.

My conclusion is that it is very dependent on the anchor set up, the position of your body, the angle of the device, and the amount of leverage that can be applied to the ATC from the sling. I’m sure with practice you could get pretty proficient with it and know the ins and outs.


Autoblock Mode: Locked


Autoblock mode: Released

Rappelling
Coming off Cynical Pinnacle a couple weeks ago, I had the opportunity to really let the thing fly and was surprised by how well it dissipated heat and easily control my descent. Locking off was a snap.

On thicker ropes, sometimes there is too much friction. Fortunately you can reduce the amount of friction by running the rope through the other side of the device, so that the rope isn’t running over the teeth. This really allows you to dial in the right amount of friction depending on terrain and rope diameter.

Summary
After giving it a hard life over the last several months, it is only now showing signs of cosmetic wear, mainly from banging against other gear and rock. It is not showing signs of wear and tear.

The Black Diamond ATC Guide is staying put on my harness. It’s one device that does almost everything and at $24.95, you can’t go wrong with that sort of purchase. It is a great belay and rappel device. I wish the auto-block release was easier, but I kinda think it’s just something I’m going to have to practice some more.

Thanks to Ron Olsen and Eric Jolly for sharing their experiences with the device.

The Black Diamond ATC Guides are available from our following sponsors:

Boulder: Neptunes

Golden: Bentgate

Denver: Wilderness Exchange Unlimited

Please support our sponsors.

Next up:
I’m heading to Zion to do some final testing of my Fish Smart Aiders and Fish Snake Charmer Wall Bag. I’ll be the guy going really slow laden down with gear!

Thanks John.

Would you recommend people replace their Reversos with this device? I guess I am wondering just how much better than the Reverso you feel this is.

Yes, I would. I sold my reverso on ebay!

After having my new rope ruined and almost completely severed by a too sharp Reverso of my partner's (catching my lead fall, the brake strand cut over the sharp edge created by lowering/rappelling); I am never going back to that particular device.

I auto-lock belayed about 30,000' of rope (ouch) through my ATC Guide this year thus far and can vouch for its ease of handling in this mode as well as its better grip for rappelling and belaying lead falls -- so far the best on the market for this type of belay device.

In more than 15 years of using auto-lock belay devices, I've never had to release one while loaded, so not sure how important a feature this is? Depends on your partner and route selection, I suppose.

Yep, I used the Reverso and Reversino pretty much since they came out and have totally converted to the BD ATC Guide. MUCH better device in all applications. MUCH smoother rope feeding in all modes and excellent grip (ropes from 10.2mm to 8.1mm so far) for belaying/rappeling.

I have to agree....I had a Reverso that I accidentally dropped (maybe it was fate?) and replaced it with an ATC Guide (that I managed to get at 20% off of retail price). The advantages I have seen so far are:

-smoother action and feel of the rope through the device

-easier to give slack in auto-block mode

-doesn't seem to suffer from the wear-sharpening effect of the Reverso

-more friction while belaying in the "normal" mode while locked off

Does anybody know whether the "release point" is full strength?

Rappelled down single 8.6 and 8.1 while simul-rapelling with the ATC Guide for the Diamond raps. Plenty of stopping power even on a single skinny line, I didn't use or feel the need to use a prussik / auto-block back up. It is good.

At first I was skeptical, but I'm a convert for most cragging applications, especially with groups. For alpine stuff with bivy/ice gear thrown in I still prefer the reversino with my 8.1mm doubles, since in that situation I am interested in lighter weight of *everything*.

There's not a word here from anyone about the Trango B-52. I switched to the B-52 about a year and a half ago after I got fed up with my Petzl Reverso. The B-52 is super light and doesn't bind constantly like the Reverso, which was my main gripe about it (I think it had a tendency to kink up my ropes, too). The B-52 has an auto-locking feature, too, without extra holes or welded keepers. It's easy to set up in auto-locking mode and easy to feed rope when weighted which, in spite of previous comments here, I have found comes in very handy if my partner is hanging and needs to be lowered. You just attach a sling to the binding locker and, when you need to feed weighted rope, pull the sling in the opposite direction of pull.

By the way, I neither work for, nor have I been influenced in any way by, Trango.

David Champion wrote:There's not a word here from anyone about the Trango B-52.

...maybe because this is a review of the BD ATC-Guide? :-)

I have a first-generation B-52 and used it extensively last year. I really like the wide rope slots; the B-52 can handle fatter ropes than any of the BD ATCs. The B-52 feeds rope very smoothly on belay and on rappel. It also works well in autoblock mode, although I never had to lower someone who had weighted the rope.

My main complaint about the B-52 is wear. It wore down and developed very sharp edges on the climber's side of the device. I showed it to Malcolm Daly, Trango founder, and he recommended not using the worn device in autoblock mode, since it hangs from the worn area when used that way.

Trango has come out with a second-generation B-52 that is beefed up with thicker metal in this area. I haven't tried the new B-52, but I hope it has addressed this wear issue.

Ron, I expected someone might come back with that one. Since there was so much contrast/comparison with the Reverso only, I thought it only fair to throw the the B-52 into the discussion, particularly since it shares the same basic features as the Guide and the Reverso.

You make a good point with regard to wear on the climber's end of the device. Mine is worn and I've wondered about it since, as you point out, that is a critical link in the chain in auto-block configuration. If the owner of Trango says not to use a worn device in auto-block mode that's good enough for me. I did check out the new B-52 on Trango's website today, and it does look beefier all around. I'll be picking one up soon.

The reason why I didn't compare it with the Trango B52 is because I've never used one!

I have a B52 as well, from the first year it came out, and I've always wondered about the relatively thin aluminum on the anchor 'biner end which I see they've recently beefed up.

A couple of disadvantages over the ATC Guide: First, there aren't any grooves or "teeth" to increase the friction for greater catching power and/or skinny rope rappeling. And secondly, in order to use it with double ropes in autoblock mode, you must add a second carabiner to the anchor end which really clutters things up.

There's a lot to be said for the B52, primarily its light weight, but the ATC Guide seems to be more versatile.

I have a Reversino for my 7.7 mm twin lines, but my Reversino has not been used since I bought my ATC guide; it works great for those tiny lines.

Eli, if your rope cut on a Reverso it was because it was rigged backwards. Shame on Petzl for making a device which can slice a rope if rigged wrong. Shame on your belayer for rigging it wrong.

David Champion, I feel like an utter failure for not having influenced you in any way. Shame on my marketing efforts.

Ron, thanks for bringing up the wear thing. Shame on us for making a device which can wear out. We've had a couple dozen returned to us to inspect for "wear" with surprising results: around 80% of the "worn out" one were, in fact, only slightly worn. The anodizing was worn off, giving the appearance of being worn out but when measured with a micrometer, we found them to retain more than 95% of their original thickness. Every one checked out to over 25kN. We did have one which was worn to approximately 50% of the original thickness and it still went to 25kN. The structure of the B-52 is incredibly strong for two reasons. First, it's manufacturered from 7075 T6 aluminum with a tensile strength of over 70,000 psi. Second, the structure is very strong, being supported equally on both sides of the load points with very little leverage. FUN FACT: We beefed it up on the fat end, not to increase the strength, but to increas the size of the area to which the cable is glued. We were having too many rejects in the manufacturing process.

John, shame on me and you for not setting you up with a B-52 to review. It's my favorite device and I think you'd like it. Call me if you want to review one.

Another FUN FACT: The B-52 was not designed with autoblocking in mind. It just turned out that you could do it with the B-52. Unless you're a guide I think it's a highly overrated technique. Eli, good on you for never having to lower a client. It speaks highy of your ability to choose routes matched to your client's ability. Unfortunately I''ve had to lower quite a few people in my day and have been really glad that it is easy and simple. I always used a Munter when bringing up seconds when guiding. When I've had to be lowered from an autoblock it's never taken less that 10 minutes to get me going, even when executed by allegedly skilled autoblockers in perfect setups. I no longer let anyone belay me with an autoblock.

Kurt Johnson, while the teeth of an ATC Guide (and Jaws) add significantly to the friction available to stop a fall, the B-52 does a cool thing: when it loads up it rocks over and, in addition to the normal "kink-in-the-rope" friction, it pinches the rope between the locking carabiner and the face plate, resulting in more friction that you would suspect. When we test them for relative friction, the B-52 falls almost exactly halfway between Jaws and our Pyramid. Haven't tested it against an ATC Guide yet but I suspect that it would fall closer to the 'Guide than the Pyramid. Because of the pinching action, one of the really cool things you can do with a B-52 is modulate the friction when lowering someone by using your thumb and index finger (of your non-braking hand) to rotate the device forward. In many cases you can easily bring a lowering climber to a stop with this techinque. Shame on us for causing clutter in your anchor setup.

FUN FACT: One of the early B-52 prototypes actually had a ring to hang it off of for autoblocking, exactly like the ATC Guide. You can see a picture of it here:

Since BD didn't decide to honor us by calling their device the ATC-B52 I decided to call this proto stage the B52-Guide. We eliminated the ring because we thought is was about as ugly as a wart on Paris Hilton's face. See what I mean here:



Cheers,
Mal

Dave, I know it can be done but it just hasn't been done with me. Maybe it's because I weight 185 lbs.
Mal

I think this issue goes more toward pre-planning the anchor & rigging positions than type of device. I've been able to get the Reverso going on a lower with that kind of weight in under a minute. To do this, I've always kept the rigging higher than me and the anchor pro higher than the rigging anticipating how gravity will take the weight.

Having the gear needed & accessible for a pulley is great advice.

I don't think Eli had rigged improperly; he was told the same thing I was, the wear on the Reverso is inconsequential. But, I think the personal decision in using a friction device in the condition it gets in after repeated use, is accountable to the user, regardless of the bad advice -- equipment should be in good order when used for fall protection. But, I think a note to all would be to check any belay device for edges that may damage the rope & replace the device when excessive wear occurs. I'm still using a Reverso & Reversino at this time.

One thing I have done with an overhanging traversing problem, I went with a direct munter instead of a locking configuration so I could take/feed rapidly & more fluidly -- you could essentially use a device non-locking, but the braking direction of the munter allows a more workable situation, (in my opinion, of course). A quick mule & overhand achieves the mainline tie-off.

What I would like to know, how do devices compare in absorbing force by use of friction inherent in a design given a huge leader fall? I much prefer to use the Reversino to belay a leader when using the smaller rope strand sizes. I'm also pro glove-use, it's a smart idea.

The one trouble spot I've had is using larger diameter ropes when belaying a leader, any rope that gets larger than a 10.5 is a bitch. I've gotten real good at feeding out, but older ropes that get "puffy"; I have to use a munter.

Any thoughts on any of this? I think it makes for good discussion.

Mark Nelson wrote:The one trouble spot I've had is using larger diameter ropes when belaying a leader, any rope that gets larger than a 10.5 is a bitch. I've gotten real good at feeding out, but older ropes that get "puffy"; I have to use a munter. Any thoughts on any of this? I think it makes for good discussion.

The Trango B-52 is your best bet for fatter (10.5mm - 11mm) ropes. The slots on the B-52 are longer and wider than those on all other devices I've used.

I've even been able to put a stiff static rope through the B-52 for rappelling; that was almost impossible with any flavor of BD ATC.

For skinnier ropes, the BD ATC-Guide is my favorite.

I'm a longtime B-52 user; in general I like it but I have some misgivings.

I wish it provided more braking force. I suspect most off these contraptions are designed with lighter climbers in mind (I'm 190 lbs ... not exactly a gorilla). With ropes smaller than 10mm I find myself relying on my autoblock backup to give enough friction for, which is not what it's for.

The only device I have that grabs hard enough is my Trango Jaws, which actually overachieves on most single ropes. But it's the one I hand to my wee girlfriend when she has to belay me.

I'm curious to hear from those who have tried both the guide and the b52 how they compare in friction. My partner uses the guide, and I found my b-52 almost dangerously slick on his shiny new 8.2mm half ropes. He found the guide to be too slick also, but he seemed to handle it a bit bettter than I did.

Trango's literature suggests the b52 should actually produce MORE friction on the skinny ropes than it does on my 9.9, but it sure doesn't seem to be the case.

I'll switch to the guide if it's substantially grippier ... but I'll miss the b52's sleek lines and low weight.

FWIW, I don't think autoblocking is overrated, especially when using double ropes or bringing up 2 seconds.

And I am a bit alarmed how fast my (1st generation) b52 is wearing on the rope side. It's not just the anodizing ... grooves started forming in the aluminum after about 10 raps. I'm glad it's still strong after 50% wear, because it will start to look scary soon.

Paul,

The ATC-Guide produces substantially more friction than the B-52, especially in "High Friction Mode", with the jaws on the belay side:

I sometimes use a second carabiner with the B-52 to increase friction for rappelling with skinny ropes.

My first-generation B-52 also developed deep grooves; I have since replaced it with a second-generation B-52. The new model has a lot more metal in that area.

Also, auto-blocking is easier with the ATC-Guide than with the B-52, especially releasing the auto-block under load.