New forum!

John,

I understand that people do not like DL. However, I get a little touchy when I hear it. Maybe that is my issue. I grant you that DL is currently lacking a vibrant local scene and that toproping is very common.

I guess I didn't realize that you have spent some time at DL. If your opinion is based on sound facts (and I think the TR and scene facts are sound), then I accept your opinion. It seems, though, that many "out of the way" climbing areas are condemned simply because they are not in Colorado or California or Utah.

As for Rifle, I too have some pretty strong negative opinions. I spent three weeks there and just could not get used to the polished rock and the scene (it being decidedly different from DL).

Jay Knower wrote:As for Rifle, I too have some pretty strong negative opinions.

I agree with you there.

I think, in our dislike of Rifle, we have found common ground.

Too true Dave.

Some days at work we end up grumpier than others. The nature of the internet is that we can let our current emotions influence our written word instantaneously. I agree, it came across badly. I was just letting my thoughts flow out without the proper time of reflection. But hey, it is a forum. For those of you that think forums are supposed to be full of mature, reflective people, then you are probably new to forums. After a few years you become hardened to flamers and at times become one yourself. Not to defend it, but that does keep it lively. (Once you get used to it that is.)

I expect to be called on my bullsh*t, which you have done. And I expect to call others on theirs, which sometimes I do more tactfully than at other times.

John, did you grow up in Baraboo? Is it possible that your ill feelings about DL are not so much about the climbing but about deeper personal issues dealing with your formative years?

That is funny Anita, no. My feelings are strictly climbing related. Is it so hard to believe that someone could climb at Devil's Lake and not like it???

No John, it's not so hard to believe that you don't like climbing at DL. It's just that you are so vociferous about it that I'm just wondering what the underlying issues are.

The underlying issues:

When I lived in Wisconsin, most of my partners LOVED Devil's Lake. They crooned over it. I hated it, but what else is there to do? It is better than nothing. Hanging out in Madison and Milwaukee, the climbers that I would meet thought that climbing was cool, tough, and macho. Basically, they were a bunch of wankers. I hated that scene. I hate toproping. When I think about Devil's lake, I don't see great lines on rock, I see wankers toproping and rappelling. Not rappelling for a reason, mind you. Rappelling because it is a tough, cool, macho thing to do.

I better go talk to my therapist.

Thank you. I understand now where you're coming from.

John, I am wondering where you climb locally. Your profile says Salt Lake...do you climb at Little and Big Cottonwood?

Jay Knower wrote:John, I am wondering where you climb locally. Your profile says Salt Lake...do you climb at Little and Big Cottonwood?

yes and yes

Hey Jay & John, do you guys have jobs or are you a couple of slackers? I think it's kind of funny that many of the people posting in this forum live a full day's drive from the Lake (myself included). The Lake must have some quality to it! Although I am much happier climbing at the City or Fisher Towers, the Lake has its own feel, and if you hated toproping so much, John, why didn't you simply choose to only lead routes? When I think of good days at the Lake, most of my memories are of leading, bouldering, or drinking! cheers

I am a slacker and have a job. Spring break and Red Rocks is almost here. Sitting at work, looking for an escape. Arguing about Devil's Lake.

How's the weather in salt lake? any snow in little cottonwood? Red rocks? what; why?

EB wrote:Hows the weather in salt lake? any snow in little cottonwood? Red rocks? what; why?

Raining... lcc is completely climbably in the lower canyon I imagine, upper canyon there will be skiing for months to come.

not sure what your question is about red rocks and what/why.

This is the time of the year to be in the desert, I don't climb locally this time of year.

I agree about the desert this time of year; i've been down there 3 times so far in the last 2 months. but why red rocks? there are so many more esthetic places to climb like the swell, canyonlands, fishers, zion, etc. i guess i just don't like masses of people.

I just got back from the Swell this weekend.

You don't like Red Rocks?! Now there is a forum discussion (ha,ha.) Dissing Devil's Lake is one thing, dissing Red Rocks?

The real answer is that it is always a matter of compromise between partners. When people ask if I want to go to Red Rocks, I have a hard time saying no. It is one of my favorite places to climb. But I agree, I love the Colorado Plateau more.

Jim Rudolph wrote:I am one of the founding members of the DLFA. Known as "rudy rudotis" or "Lil' Gill" I can answer any questions you may have about this private club. The initiation was to stand on your head and chug a beer, each year we celebrated the 10 days of f...ness. Tom Duechler and I climbed many first ascents together and also made it 17 stories up the 40 story Pillsbury HQ in Minneapolis. Other first ascents were the Cathedral Point in Montana.

Hi Jim,

So it was you, with Tommy, who bagged the FA of the Pillsbury Tower in Mpls? Cool. I remember that well. There was a big article in the Minneapolis Star & Tribune about that ascent. If I remember correctly, the cops were waiting for you on top and you got busted, but let off with a slap on the wrist. Jackness now, jackness forever, jackness for the revolution!

It was us who tried the Pillsbury building. It was 40 stories, but we only made it 17 floors before the cops took out a window and grabbed us. We were able to negotiate with the Pillsbury executives to NOT press charges if we came in, otherwise it would have gotten very ugly with criminal tresspassing charges, etc.... It was the first week of December and as it was the North face the winds were really high. I think the windchill was around -20, so the warm coffee and no jail time was sounding pretty good. We did however smoke our single "J" we brought with 10 feet from the window before climbing in, as we did not want it on us. They didn't seem to care much, as we already had our "deal" to come in.

Jim, Do you remember the Oops Trail?