Why Two Ropes?

I haven't used mine yet (waiting for a day I'm willing to sacrifice knowing my first attempts at rope management will suck) but one appealing factor that hasn't been mentioned is the rockfall/rope cutting risk: double ropes reduce the risk of catastrophic rope damage to near zero. Americans are basically the only ones who don't care enough about this risk to use double ropes in the alpine.

To my knowledge there's only ever been one rope cut fatality on double ropes (a case where basically the whole pitch fell off and death was inevitable), compared to hundreds on single ropes.

The other day I saw some guys toproping an ice climb, in your normal top rope configuration, using 2 half ropes. I thought that was bizarre

Why did it seem bizarre? If they use half ropes what should they do that would be less bizarre?

Aaron K wrote:

The other day I saw some guys toproping an ice climb, in your normal top rope configuration, using 2 half ropes. I thought that was bizarre

Makes sense if they are traveling and trying to minimize luggage and want the half ropes for alpine routes. Although half ropes might be rated to only use one in a TR scenario, the small diameter rope ages more quickly and is prone to core/ sheath separation if you do it a lot. 

Molly Ohm wrote:

All the things Marco mentions, plus when used as doubles/half’s it spreads out load during a fall so that the two top pieces have reduced force going to them. Makes a difference on routes where pro is more marginal. Also why ice climbers often will use this method. 

Hey Molly,

Pretty sure you are correct… most small ropes clipped as doubles (apart) do stretch more resulting in a less violent force on the gear ( not sure about peak force. I always assumed far less as thats the whole point of using dynamic ropes). Tell D I say hello.

For those interested I have always had this train of thought using doubles/triple rated ropes in situations where they are clipped separately. Marginal gear placements are placed without much mental/ankle gambling - i.e. above your head (rope is doubling back to your harness) and if gear in any orientaion rips, beneath you/ to the side of you/ even below you, the extra slack in the system is not introduced to the other rope. So you can get bold and place bets with gear holding that you would otherwise not want to place with a single rope. The cost benefit of placing marginal gear with two ropes is a no brainer - place it! With a single I am hesitant to introduce extra rope in sketch situations and marginal gear ripping can result in zippers, spontaneous unclipping, and disoriented positioning while falling. The second rope - if watched carefully and held tight by the belayer (belayers often get lax with alpine slack and ATC using two), will eliminate all of those factors.

Another pro - Hard to cut through two ropes in one fall.

Con - tag line for pulling up a bag etc. is now in the lead system - not plug and play. There are solutions to this with short pitches or using the pull and toss method on straight pitches but both are less than ideal. 

I also love belaying with doubles when my partner is out of sight. Its like having a window into their world. If one rope is moving down while the other is moving up I know they likely have a good piece above them and are safe. If both are moving up for a long time in perfect synchronization they are probably runout. If one rope is pulled up quickly and the other rope advanced slowly or is still they probably just clipped a piece. 

As usual lots of comments from folks who perhaps are not experts with half ropes. 

Zero doubt that single ropes are less hassle to climb with. 

When the gear is tricky half ropes absolutely give you an advantage. 

Smart people absolutely place two screws with one piece clipped to each rope before a crux if the ice is not ideal.  If the ice is truck it's one screw with both ropes clipped to it. 

When the rock is sharp half ropes absolutely give you a better chance of not cutting both ropes and dying.

I have a 6mm Mamute tag that I use primarily as a rap Line while ice soloing. It's very tangle prone.  On multi pitch with full raps mandatory I prefer half ropes. If I have to carry it I prefer to be able to use it all day rather than just on the way down.   If it was a lot of splitter cracks I would be inclined to use a single with the tag. 

Splitter jams double ropes get in the way of your feet. 

Half ropes give you lots of options for self rescue, cut resistance, funky gear placement, easy rappelling, bringing up two seconds and are easy enough to climb on if you are an expert with them. 

But I will add that they are still more work than climbing on a single rope even if you are an expert with the system.   I still prefer the doubbles for multi pitch that is not sport bolted or all splitter cracks. 

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

I have a 6mm Mamute tag that I use primarily as a rap Line while ice soloing. It's very tangle prone. 

6mm Procord? That was the Pur Line before there was a Pur Line. Same weight as the Pur too. Fighting tangles with that thing is brutal; still use mine though.

MattH wrote:

I haven't used mine yet (waiting for a day I'm willing to sacrifice knowing my first attempts at rope management will suck) but one appealing factor that hasn't been mentioned is the rockfall/rope cutting risk: double ropes reduce the risk of catastrophic rope damage to near zero. Americans are basically the only ones who don't care enough about this risk to use double ropes in the alpine.

To my knowledge there's only ever been one rope cut fatality on double ropes (a case where basically the whole pitch fell off and death was inevitable), compared to hundreds on single ropes.

Agree that the aversion to double ropes is more of an American thing of recent vintage. When you climb in the Alps you can literally hear the mountains crumbling around you, especially over the last decade and a half. Cut/damaged ropes is a real risk there. Combine that with routes that dwarf in length the standard alpine routes here in the States and Euros and Brits are far more apt to use doubles. I tried using a tag on a few 20+ pitch routes in Cham one trip; was way more effort than it was worth, especially with bolted raps.   

I started using doubles in 98 because I hooked up with a Euro chick. I was going to do Whatever it took to hang on to her so I learned how to climb with half ropes.  We are still at it :)

Finn McGeehan wrote:

Hi everyone, I’ve been getting into trad climbing as of late, and I’ve noticed (particularly on multi pitches) that many groups will use two ropes to climb with. I’m just curious as to why, and if I should be doing the same? Thanks!

To adress the questions initially asked.

1) Probably either because that is what was normal around them and how they learnt or an active choice having considered the pros and cons (most of which have already been covered). Other answers are possible such as Nick's above   nice photo BTW.

2) Thats up to you buddy I'm not your Dad.

Beyond that most of my climbing these days is multipitch mountain routes at the shall we say the more relaxing end of the grade spectrum in the UK, use a pair of half ropes pretty much exclusivly for that as they fit the style/situation really well. That said  in other style/situations singles can fit really well so take your choice.

Whilst yes a little bit more finesse is needed when belaying at times, it soon becomes second nature in my experience. I've also found that as long as using ropes that arn't supper skinny I don't find tangling an issue, occassionally at belay after a few pitches it is useful to untie one to undo a few twists and retie but thats a quick operation and avoidable with attention anyway.

Last point something that Rgold once pointed out, it cant be that complicated if the British can manage, and as a British I can be thick as mince at times and I manage doubles fine.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

I started using doubles in 98 because I hooked up with a Euro chick. I was going to do Whatever it took to hang on to her so I learned how to climb with half ropes.  We are still at it :)

Is that a pair of Boreal Aces? Yes thats all I'm looking at. I had a pair of the old ones of them way back when, loved them on the Welsh slate.

Yes. Those are aces. I love single for sports and trad cragging. Love doubles for multi pitch rock and ice.