Am I being too conservative in term of gears placement?

Yukon Cornelius wrote:

People say this kind of thing a lot, but how many people have been killed or injured from being out a couple hours longer? and how much time does it really add to place more gear? placing a few more cams per pitch couldn't add that much more time to a climb, realistically. 

if you're ABOUT to get caught in a storm that's one thing, but even then, we all have quick and easy access to accurate weather forecasts 99% of the time. maybe just don't go out climbing a long route if there's a storm coming in and you don't even have enough time to protect the climb properly.

You two are having completely different conversations. 

First off: climbing, as a genre, is a huge category and it includes mountaineering (which in itself may include alpine rock climbing). Many people have been killed, injured, or had a major epics mountaineering because they were a couple of hours too slow (hundreds, if not thousands, of people). 

Second off: that has almost nothing to do with the conversation we are having in this thread. I agree with you. Placing gear on single or sub-5 pitch multi's is not the place to skimp in order to "save time". I also agree that belays and changeovers are the place where you need to be efficient with time. 

A competent climber should be able to place gear pretty quickly (30 seconds or less) and if they can't do that then the last thing they should do is place LESS gear. They should practice and increase their ability to judge sizes, get gear efficiently off their harness, place and evaluate gear quickly, and clip in to that rope quickly. 

Falling "twice the distance" of the last piece is not very realistic, especially in trad climbing. 

It's 2x distance + slack + rope stretch + movement of the belayer. 

You're actually right. 2x distance isn't quite correct. I do place 20 ft apart when it's on easy scramble terrains. Not something I usually do on steep climb or potential falls. 

If you're placing the first piece 10 to 15 up, and then about 7 to 9 after, if you pop placing your second piece that's a high likelihood of a deck. Let choose 10 feet for the first piece. Climb 7 feet above, pop off. Fall down to 3 feet above deck but ropestretch, and where did your belayed stand?  Goodbye ankles. So maybe start being even more cautious? I sew it up, top to bottom. 

I also climb at the gunks. I dont see people placing their 2nd or even 3rd piece appropriately to avoid a deck (myself often included).  It's all risk management, to echo others. But I'd reckon many people dont know as much as they ought to, and its often poor risk management. 

I led laurel with its off the ground crux (6 feet up?) , and practiced the first few moves (getting 5 feet off the ground  then downclimbing) with my partner spotting 4 times. I placed two pieces as high as I could, came down,  had my partner stand with their shoulder on the damn wall to reduce rope in the system, and went for it. If I'd popped, I dont think idve decked because of my precautions, and if I hadnt felt confident after those 4 tries, i wouldnt have tried to lead, even with the precautions. Not worth my ankles. I've seen people lead it with their belayer 10 feet from the wall. If they pop before the 2nd piece, that's the ground. So those people must feel pretty confident, or maybe they're lucky. 

"The Best Climber Climbs Tomorrow" -GK

Gumby King wrote:

"The Best Climber Climbs Tomorrow" -GK

Well, that 100% fits the climber who only ever climbs onto a couch.

… no offense intended to couch potatoes.

 If I'm repeating a route or have tons of beta then yeah, I might run out certain sections because I know what to expect. 

On the flipside, if I'm onsighting something I don't know much about, I tend to be more conservative and place more gear because a crux can come up on you unexpectedly.  What looked like a nice sequence from the ground may be quite different up and personal.