Worst destination climbing area to be a local?

ya the PNW (Western WA/BC) honestly seems like the worst place to be a local based on climbing season

oddly enough though climbing here in the PNW as a local is way better than traveling. We've all had those nice cold winter days that are perfect in between rains and there's basically no chance any normal visitor could see those days... which sane person on a budget books a trip up here in the winter?

It has the shortest climbing season of any major international climbing destination.

How about the Bugaboos. 

Each year there's about 2-3 weeks where routes are dry but the Bugaboo-Snowpatch Col is still in. And the timing of those 2-3 weeks changes each year.

I love the hueco restrictions, That place would be dust if something were not done.  There is nothing I hate more than a crowded climbing area, and would never go to Hueco if the restrictions were not in place.  For destinations, I have no desire to live around ten sleep.  The snow in the winter is a bitch I am sure, plus in the summer its overrun by people who disregard climbing ethics

Well, I would by no means put Bishop on the list, but I can say that I am about to drive half way across the country from the Eastern Sierra to go camp and climb where there are no people.  Compared to 10 or 20 years ago the Eastern Sierra is overrun- I go out to the desert once or twice a month just to get away from the traffic and crowds.   Mammoth is the northern most suburb of LA, and Bishop has basically been Oaklandized...but the area still edges out anywhere else I've been for balancing work and play. 

Mark Vigil wrote:

I love the hueco restrictions, That place would be dust if something were not done.  There is nothing I hate more than a crowded climbing area, and would never go to Hueco if the restrictions were not in place.  For destinations, I have no desire to live around ten sleep.  The snow in the winter is a bitch I am sure, plus in the summer its overrun by people who disregard climbing ethics

I would have to disagree. The pre-1998 plan was just fine. Entry was capped at 78 & those that were already in the campground. Except for the campground, it was first come/first served. No reservations. It wasn’t crowded and there were no silly tours for East Mtn and the East Spur. You just had to show up at the gate early enough. And, Mushroom boulder wasn’t closed due to invisible pictographs. 

Shelf Road...if people consider that a "destination"....

p hodges wrote:

Well, I would by no means put Bishop on the list, but I can say that I am about to drive half way across the country from the Eastern Sierra to go camp and climb where there are no people.  Compared to 10 or 20 years ago the Eastern Sierra is overrun- I go out to the desert once or twice a month just to get away from the traffic and crowds.   Mammoth is the northern most suburb of LA, and Bishop has basically been Oaklandized...but the area still edges out anywhere else I've been for balancing work and play. 

Really? I think one can always go to a deserted spot with a 30/40 min drive and hike.

You are very lucky to live there. 

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

Shelf Road...if people consider that a "destination"....

Care to explain why? Yeah, it’s really crowded, but the winter weather and climbing from .11b to .12c is quite good. 

Sam M wrote:

I mean...right this instant? North Carolina sounds pretty bad!

Probably a lot of cool boulders newly uncovered though.

Frank Stein wrote:

Care to explain why? Yeah, it’s really crowded, but the winter weather and climbing from .11b to .12c is quite good. 

That's one take.....the way I see it is that 90% of the routes at Shelf from 11b through 12c is pretty much the exact same. Vertical, delicate feet, pockets, high feet, forgettable movement. For me, there are less than 10 climbs at Shelf that I would give max stars to at any other, actual, destination. I would rather climb a 2 star route at the RRG or NRG in August than most "5 star" routes on a splitter day at Shelf.

Guy Keesee wrote:

Really? I think one can always go to a deserted spot with a 30/40 min drive and hike.

You are very lucky to live there. 

Yes exactly Guy, this is still totally true!

Khoi wrote:

Unpopular opinion but...

As I've been saying for years:

SQUAMISH IS AN OVERLY VEGETATED RAIN FOREST - and the vegetation is winning... Almost any face climb that doesn't get a crap ton of regular ascents will moss right back up in a few seasons. Even some face climbs that do get regular ascents still moss up everywhere but where the critical holds are. Some crags are getting noticeably overgrown. Their photos in the recent 2020 guidebook show them as having been scrubbed pristine, but now they are half to completely mossed over. It doesn't matter that a crack climb gets hundreds of ascents a season, over the fall and winter the vegetation from above will rain organic debris on it, filling up the crack in time for the first person to climb it in the spring to have to use their nut tool to excavate the crack as they climb.

It has the shortest climbing season of any major international climbing destination. (Seriously, I tried to think of any major international "climbing" destination, as in people from around the world get on a plane to climb there, that has a shorter season than Squamish and the next contender I came up with is Patagonia - and that's not even the same type of climbing!) This is where some locals pipe in and say how they climb in Squamish over 150 days a year because they know that the exposed friction slabs dry out within hours, but do you really want to be doing the same dozen friction slabs over and over and over and over again? I think the reason why more people don't realize this is that most non-locals will visit in July or August when you are less likely to be rained out. They have a good time climbing there and leave with a positive impression of Squamish climbing. Whereas locals living in the area know that for a solid 6-7 months in Squamish  the number of days where the rock is wet outnumber days were the rock is dry. And then there's another 3-4 months where it's iffy for getting dry rock.

As for the climbing itself:

The cracks are too often flaring, irregular, or awkward. A lot of those so-call "cracks" wouldn't even be cracks if it weren't for decades of piton pounding and removing. You rarely get the nice splitter cracks that make for metres upon metres of great jamming like you do on desert sandstone or on basalt. Much of the granite is glacier polished.

Maybe if I climbed 5.11 trad or harder, and, maybe if I were better at friction slab climbing and better at being able to use the smeary features that proliferate granite domes I might appreciate Squamish more, but even then Squamish would still be an overly vegetated rainforest with a super short climbing season.

However, I now must add that I have spent the past 4 years doing more sport climbing in Squamish than I have ever done in my 16 years of climbing... and I... like it. The vast majority of Squamish sport climbing is on rock that is far more featured.

Squamish is still an overly vegetated rainforest with a super short climbing season though.

My first introduction to Squamish was an article in the late 70s, I think it was Mountain Magazine, written by locals that began with these words: "The eternal pissing rain..."

But during those numerous wet days, the area seems to provide the local with other outdoor activities. 

Khoi wrote:

Unpopular opinion but...

As I've been saying for years:

SQUAMISH IS AN OVERLY VEGETATED RAIN FOREST - and the vegetation is winning... Almost any face climb that doesn't get a crap ton of regular ascents will moss right back up in a few seasons. Even some face climbs that do get regular ascents still moss up everywhere but where the critical holds are. Some crags are getting noticeably overgrown. Their photos in the recent 2020 guidebook show them as having been scrubbed pristine, but now they are half to completely mossed over. It doesn't matter that a crack climb gets hundreds of ascents a season, over the fall and winter the vegetation from above will rain organic debris on it, filling up the crack in time for the first person to climb it in the spring to have to use their nut tool to excavate the crack as they climb.

It has the shortest climbing season of any major international climbing destination. (Seriously, I tried to think of any major international "climbing" destination, as in people from around the world get on a plane to climb there, that has a shorter season than Squamish and the next contender I came up with is Patagonia - and that's not even the same type of climbing!) This is where some locals pipe in and say how they climb in Squamish over 150 days a year because they know that the exposed friction slabs dry out within hours, but do you really want to be doing the same dozen friction slabs over and over and over and over again? I think the reason why more people don't realize this is that most non-locals will visit in July or August when you are less likely to be rained out. They have a good time climbing there and leave with a positive impression of Squamish climbing. Whereas locals living in the area know that for a solid 6-7 months in Squamish  the number of days where the rock is wet outnumber days were the rock is dry. And then there's another 3-4 months where it's iffy for getting dry rock.

As for the climbing itself:

The cracks are too often flaring, irregular, or awkward. A lot of those so-call "cracks" wouldn't even be cracks if it weren't for decades of piton pounding and removing. You rarely get the nice splitter cracks that make for metres upon metres of great jamming like you do on desert sandstone or on basalt. Much of the granite is glacier polished.

Maybe if I climbed 5.11 trad or harder, and, maybe if I were better at friction slab climbing and better at being able to use the smeary features that proliferate granite domes I might appreciate Squamish more, but even then Squamish would still be an overly vegetated rainforest with a super short climbing season.

However, I now must add that I have spent the past 4 years doing more sport climbing in Squamish than I have ever done in my 16 years of climbing... and I... like it. The vast majority of Squamish sport climbing is on rock that is far more featured.

Squamish is still an overly vegetated rainforest with a super short climbing season though.

This just distills to the ‘Squamish sucks don’t go’ bumper stickers I see whenever I’m up there. The secret is out that Squamish is amazing. Nice try bud ;) 

Sam M wrote:

Also, not sure how international you were thinking, but Cape Town sounds like the opposite of a fun, safe and carefree place to live.

Been here for over 3 years now.  Not too shabby of a place, and safe enough if you know the layout of the land.  Stay away from the crime hotspot areas and you'll be fine.  

Good weather year round. Decent sport, excellent bouldering and trad here in town and just a few hours from rocklands (just came back from rocklands yesterday).

Not too mention, just about any other outdoor hobby (except snow sports) you can think of are very good here.

Alan Zhan wrote:

ya the PNW (Western WA/BC) honestly seems like the worst place to be a local based on climbing season

I think if you’re a die hard !!CLIMBER!!, the PNW sucks ass but if you’re a multi-sport person, honestly kinda rocks.

I’ve learned that if I want to go out in the winter/spring: I throw my climbing gear, running shoes/vest, skis or snowboard, maybe an ice axe, into my car and one of those activities will work out. Sometimes all of them on the same day.

I second that WA is probably not as great as people like to pretend it is. Everyone is talking about the weather. What about the crowds?

Is there anywhere else in the US that will have a conga line on a route 9 miles from the trailhead?

Shaun Johnson wrote:

I second that WA is probably not as great as people like to pretend it is. Everyone is talking about the weather. What about the crowds?

Is there anywhere else in the US that will have a conga line on a route 9 miles from the trailhead?

Does the diamond count even though it’s more like 5 miles? 

p hodges wrote:

Well, I would by no means put Bishop on the list, but I can say that I am about to drive half way across the country from the Eastern Sierra to go camp and climb where there are no people.  Compared to 10 or 20 years ago the Eastern Sierra is overrun- I go out to the desert once or twice a month just to get away from the traffic and crowds.   Mammoth is the northern most suburb of LA, and Bishop has basically been Oaklandized...but the area still edges out anywhere else I've been for balancing work and play. 

Investigate the Western Sierra some time. It is phenomenal and there is no one anywhere except Yosemite and Tahoe. Literally the entire rest of the Western Sierra is full of amazing climbing and it's super empty. 

Ellen S wrote:

How about the Bugaboos. 

Each year there's about 2-3 weeks where routes are dry but the Bugaboo-Snowpatch Col is still in. And the timing of those 2-3 weeks changes each year.

Do that many people fly in to climb in the Bugs? Honest question - I genuinely don't know.

Everyone I know who climbs there drives there, so that's just people from BC, AB, and the PNW

Ben B wrote:

This just distills to the ‘Squamish sucks don’t go’ bumper stickers I see whenever I’m up there. The secret is out that Squamish is amazing. Nice try bud ;) 

Squamish is good during the season. That's not a secret. Unfortunately, its season is super short