Small ledges danger when trad climbing easy routes

Tell your belayer “no soft catch” when climbing routes with small or big ledges.  Your belayer needs to be paying particular attention to you and be ready to take in slack or even step or run back to prevent you from hitting a ledge if you fall.   A soft catch has its place but ledgy routes or routes with protrusions are not that place.   

That’s a good idea, Kevin. In fact, it was so deeply ingrained in me from climbing way BITD that I have to really think about how I belay in the gym/sport setting where falls are safe and a soft catch is not only nice but avoids injured ankles on the falling climber who could slam hard into the wall. My natural instinct is to suck in rope to shorten the fall… I have to always think of the context and belay accordingly. I’m more at home on ledgy trad, I guess!

I fell off midway on Thank God Ledge on Half Dome while carrying our bivi gear . So near yet so far .

first thing is do not fall

it is climbing not falling

down climb or go in direct or put in a piece above and have belayer take

there is to be no falling in trad moderates (maybe 5.11-5.14 trad has falls)

I’m happy I don’t climb with any of you guys you’re all way too anxious about trad climbing. 

Adam Mac wrote:

I’m happy I don’t climb with any of you guys you’re all way too anxious about trad climbing. 

I am sure almost everyone is a bit anxious in the beginning but with time process this anxiety into mental focus. I am also sure that some degree of confidence helps. But the end product of complacency and being too cool is injuries and setbacks. 

You just need to not fall!

Just last week I was probably looking at 50-60 foot falls given the factors of gear spacing, out of belayer sight, and on terrain that is ledgy as hell. It’s not even considered r-rated.

If not suggested already, punching above your usual grade level by following harder trad climbs and/or pushing it on sport climbs, might help consolidate your strength and technique more quickly. 

LOL! How things have changed. There was a time when it was not acceptable to fall in such scenarios. It was that simple. The responsibility for one's own safety by climbing within one's ability was considered essential, and the maxim that the leader musty not fall was really a thing.

Of course people did, and got hurt, you can argue that climbing in that era was unreasonably dangerous, and that more bolts on trad routes with closer spacing and no reaches so shorter people can lead is the solution, but then it's not trad any longer. 

At a certain point you either need to accept your own limits in context or alternatively clip bolts in a clinically safe environment.

mountainhick wrote:

LOL! How things have changed. There was a time when it was not acceptable to fall in such scenarios. It was that simple. The responsibility for one's own safety by climbing within one's ability was considered essential, and the maxim that the leader musty not fall was really a thing.

Of course people did, and got hurt, you can argue that climbing in that era was unreasonably dangerous, and that more bolts on trad routes with closer spacing and no reaches so shorter people can lead is the solution, but then it's not trad any longer. 

At a certain point you either need to accept your own limits in context or alternatively clip bolts in a clinically safe environment.

I think given up to the cognitive limitations, some people would prefer to have only a few choices since simply they could not comprehend more than 2. Starting a trade climb, you aren't always sure how it pans out. There are more than 2 choices then - resting more, bailing out, trying a climb on a top rope first, asking for Betta, etc. 

Old style climbing and bolt spacing limited the amount of safe routes one can climb. Not sure why it is good. If I can finish the climb hanging or falling 1-3 times, I consider it is a good challenge. Otherwise you would climb only easy routes and won't progress fast. 

I don't think that anyone has suggested pushing off if you fall yet. Pushing off is not a good idea most of the time but there's a generally-accepted exception if you need to clear a small ledge. Of course managing to do it well enough would be tricky. It would also be very dependent on the specific circumstances of the loss of grip. I've thought about it on occasion but have never needed to actually do it and have no idea whether I'd be able to execute it adequately if it came to it. The other aspect is that it is antithetical to the no-soft-catch directive so it would also be tricky to 1) anticipate the situation where you will have a good placement 2-3 m above the ledge but then nothing for the next 3, 4, 5+ m above it; and 2) clearly communicate to the belayer "no-soft-catch for the next 3-4 m but back to soft-catching and no reeling it in beyond that"

Also, contrary to the OP's stated wish to not have to rely on placing a lot of gear just above the ledge, variations on this theme have been discussed quite a bit here (placing lots of gear, maybe even aiding or French-freeing, bumping, back-cleaning, resting, etc.) because, of course, it's definitely something to consider in this circumstance. One aspect of this that has not been mentioned is the double rope technique that can be applied (when needed and feasible) to prevent the possibility of a direct (FF2) and/or high impact fall on a mid-route belay. This would work equally well to prevent a mid-pitch ledge crater. This technique requires having the possibility of multiple (decent but not necessarily bomb-proof) placements in the 2-4 m zone above the mid-route belay or the mid-pitch ledge.

It consists of basically placing the next pro at arm's length and clipping it with one rope while being belayed off of (and mostly avoiding climbing above) the previous pro on the other rope, which is kept safely locked off by the belayer at the same time as he feeds out the first rope; then climbing up to (but, again, not above) that new top pro and repeating the manoeuvre, alternating the clipping and belaying ropes until more normal climbing and protecting can safely resume. Of course, this requires good double-rope skills from the belayer and clear lines of communication. In this scheme, as I mentioned above, you could make do (if you have to) with thinner/smaller gear since, to begin with, it would just need to be good enough for a top-rope rather than lead fall arrest. Of course, it's still essential to make these placements as good as they can be in case a big lead fall higher up ends up ripping out gear and these ledge-protecting progression pros turn out to be critical. You can also back-clean through this procedure, if required, and if that matters to you, it can be done without asking for a take or grabbing the gear, thus preserving the clean send

Is this double rope technique any different from using alpine draws?

Topical content extracted from the weekend. Courtesy of a non dramatic, run of the mill, less than 10 ft fall. clipped a “ledge” no wider than a Kit Kat bar; on a climb several grades below my onsight limit. Exfoliating lichen choss FTW

My partner used to say, “we need to get stronger man, these sevens and eights are dangerous!” 

Ivanchenko Vladimir wrote:

You can, of course, say that I need to graduate to 5.10+ trad climbing,..

I'd be careful with that assumption. I observe that more often than not, if an easy section appears on a >5.10 trad route, they are often not being marked R/X even if the nature of that section is every bit R/X because the assumption is if you are capable of climbing 5.10 or above, you should be capable of almost free solo'ing runout easy section. 

Ivanchenko Vladimir wrote: Thanks all, I guess there is no magic tricks here but the wisdom of paing ATTENTION to the obvious - your climbing shape, mental state, placing the gear smartly and doing the risk management. 

May I add one more? You can also reduce your exposure to such risk by avoiding leading routes that are known to be dangerous if you are not confident about your success. There are so many routes out there to help hone your skills and push your climbing ability, why subject yourself to hightened potential of injury? 

Very good last suggestion. I'm definitely save more time skipping a dangerous climb even after Haha approach than healing for 3 months and battling the fear of falling again. I only wish I could bail trad routes as easily as sport ones. 

Ivanchenko Vladimir wrote:

Is this double rope technique any different from using alpine draws?

Huh? I don't understand the question. An alpine draw is simply a medium-length webbing sling (or longer) with two straight-gate biners clipped in, shortened to 1/3 length in a way that can be either left as a short draw or easily lengthened to full length if required to straighten out the rope path. The double-rope no-lead-fall technique I described, does need short draws to work, which is usually straightforward (and not requiring alpine draws) at the beginning of a pitch but less so in the middle. If the pros used for this technique are significantly offset with respect to the rope path below and/or above the ledge, you could use alpine draws on them, keeping them short to begin with and back-lengthening them before moving up after clipping the next pro. But that’s the only point of intersection I can think of between the technique I described and alpine draws