“Breaking up” with sketchy climbing partners

ilya f wrote:

i think it's not ideal to add a 3rd to a tight day like that but she helped with driving which i guess was okay. he also brought his dog. 

If not previously agreed upon, neither of these changes are okay. It's not like you're going to Rifle for an afternoon. That's a tough spot to be in at 5:00am. Thanks for sharing. I hope karma caught up with the guy.

Great Thread. And Loved how some of yall are dealing with the after math.

Quite a few on my own side. But what i can remember now:

Im originally from Chile, in chile there is a tendency to do everything in one go and just wing it. There is no such thing as a TR day or really training for a climb or mountain. You just wing it... be aware of the common phrase "Que tanto color?? vamo´no mah" (why so much paint to this? lets just be bold and go!).I was dating and decided after many orange flags to go craggin for the first time. We just bouldered in the gym. She organized the entire getting there and meeting some other climbers in the crag. an hour bus ride and Cajon del maipo gets VERY hot starting in september. We arrived to the crag at noon. I was gearing up to lead, ground level, and walk up the ledge to start the climb. Easy 5.8 by chilean standards but that means 5.5+ in NC. As i was preparing to decide on the climbing commands we gonna use i said "you not gonna use a helmet" ... "ohhh i never really thought about it my friends never use one" . After that while going towards the first bolt, she turns to help a first day climber , first day everything climber girl to give her a speed lesson on her ATC....to note that the girl was invited by her date and he was already 7 bolts up the route and the girl was obviously nervous and saying to us "he just told me to do this with the rope and he will be all right and i take care of it " ..... ???????? .... Remember we where on a ledge....so i asked...lets make a decision...we climb or assist this person to securely belay her date or we climb...but i cannot be climbing and having my belayer talking to someone else. Standard right?

So that went into my head and i got afraid the rest of the day and by the afternoon i said no more because of this safety reasons....and i got a "i am too serious and i should relax...no accidents are gonna happen if we put good vibes out there". Never climbed with that person again.

The one that stills kinda hurts: I was meaning to climb Calbuco Volcano for SO LONGGGG. So i was in my 20ties, broke...just my gear and phisical ability ...so NO CAR! That is a major thing to go out in South America. Cars are not a craiglist item (just to survive) down there. So i met this guys a few weeks ago while guiding another near by volcano, The Casablanca. I was arriving to the summit with my client and this folks where coming down, tired and admitting they got lost on their way up and it was their first time using crampons and an ice axe. They where ok but needed the extra food to make it thru the day. First warning....they just improvise in winter conditiones when you are using blades on your feet.

Went rock climbing with the folks (again the guy had a car)....Easy leads, 5 bolts....but i was not a rock guide back then....so was not easy...but manage to do my TR safely but this guys did not care to really prepare. Of course...my rope, my gear. they only brought helmet and harness. The car guy made it very obvious that he wanted to do this X list of volcanoes that involves crevasse traversing and Low angle neve and ice. He had one volcano in his life by now. I said yes to go to Calbuco cause i was desperate. My mistake to listen to my stomach. 

I prepared all the logistics for this winter ascent and took the guiding this 2 people. No prob. Within my SOP gonna be a long fun 2 days. No prob really. 2 hour drive to trail head, and hike up 6 hours to the refugio at sunset. Climbs starts at 4am. Winter, may, 5 meters of snow. As we got down from the car i asked if they have all of their gear...should have visually checked everything on their pack. They said yes. And of we go hike. Steep forest, snow line was deeeeeep and we got to the refugio....start cooking, jokes and watch the sunset. Chill stuff. 

That is when one of them said ... "oooo men i forgot my headlight on the car....i dont think i need it right?" and that was it. by then i knew the climb was not gonna be possible. at dark, 4am 3 people, 2 head lights....and basically guiding 1 person thru the night to get to the plateau. So many hours and soooft snow during day light. So changed the plans to hike in the snow, teach how to route find and use basic ice axe skills while coming down on class 4 rappels due to poor snow conditiones. when 8am arrived to the base of the somital cone....they realized the phisical exposure of the volcano was not up their alley. That is how i really learn my lesson not to finde partners in desperation. 

In the years to follow i had a few invitation last minute for longer expeditiones and alpine climbs that for some reason at the last minute i said no...with back pack ready and all. Those invitation where followed by a message or phone call the day after saying ... "heard about those guys in that volcano? they are missing due to a puihua blizzard"

Elaine Gilstrom wrote:

So that is the medium version of the only real climbing breakup I had. I was mostly the problem in this particular one, but it was still kinda sketchy that the person who called me sketchy wouldn't explain how I was being sketchy. Having been on the other side of this, I'd like to ask y'all that if you are breaking up with a partner for a safety reason, please explain it to them instead of just leaving them to wonder/speculate.

I'm with you on this, you have to try and have this conversation with the individual but it's on them to assimilate some of the feedback.  I have been the sketchy partner as well (I asked this question to basically all my friends before asking MP).  I am actually grateful for the partners who did call me out, because they used it as a teaching moment.  One of my OG mentors in San Diego took me under his wing while I was still a teenager (the patience of this man) and read me the riot act for cleaning anchors in a dangerous way, but also showed me one of many correct ways to do it.  We continued to climb together much more safely until I moved away.

Ellen S wrote:
Weeks later I get a WhatsApp message from someone who had figured out via MP forum stalking that I knew him (I have since removed all connections to him on MP to protect his identity, so don't go looking). She says he scammed her out of a $300 deposit for borrowing some gear worth $100. Eventually she managed to get her money back by cornering him on the street.

This person is a guide, and although I doubt he treats his clients in exactly the same way, he obviously has some major personality/ethical problems that imo do affect his ability to guide people who trust him blindly. briefly considered making a complaint to the AMGA, but he didn't do anything other than say hurtful words to me, and the scam thing was second hand. - Should I?

I've actually had multiple people just DM me these stories because their sketchy partner is still out and about and they're afraid of being retaliated against for telling it.

To be honest I've wrestled with this same question.  Like how widely do I spread the word? That's a big reason why I made this post.  I have a bunch of friends that work for Sierra Mountain Guides I can certainly ask them their opinion.

While reading this thread, I’ve realized I’ve been so lucky to have a TON of great partners. I never hear back from them though :(.

Ian Bloom wrote:

I've actually had multiple people just DM me these stories because their sketchy partner is still out and about and they're afraid of being retaliated against for telling it.

To be honest I've wrestled with this same question.  Like how widely do I spread the word? That's a big reason why I made this post.  I have a bunch of friends that work for Sierra Mountain Guides I can certainly ask them their opinion.

Being new to the NC area and started my SPI journey ... it took like 3 seconds to start hearing rumors about the "community". What i did was go to the direct sources and ask politely about the subject. When it comes to my job (married 3 kids) and make good business calls and safety on the social environments for my clients at the crags i NEED to know. there is no way around it. The information ive gathered and shared to me i keep it in my work vault and be discrete but open about it if someones in harms way. Delicated subject what you are pointing but can be easily adressed / talked by being adults.

Colonel Mustard wrote:

While reading this thread, I’ve realized I’ve been so lucky to have a TON of great partners. I never hear back from them though :(.

I think you may have been discretely mentioned a few times in this thread? 

I'd climb with you, just lay off the late night hospital stories.

I've been pretty lucky with partners myself too, the worst days have been with heavy yappers and occasionally the ones who grossly overestimate their abilities (usually heavy on the yap). Ghosting seems to work well.

You don’t need to worry about sketchy climbing partners if you don’t climb with them in the first place…

The more you know…

M M wrote:

Ghosting seems to work well.

Works every single time...

x15x15 wrote:

Works every single time...

Except for the stalker types, that takes special antisocial skillz

Colonel Mustard wrote:

While reading this thread, I’ve realized I’ve been so lucky to have a TON of great partners. I never hear back from them though :(.

That might mean you're sketchy, though somehow I doubt that.  Your wit betrays you as a thoughtful and intelligent person.

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

Spent a day climbing with a partner and a 3rd friend. That same day that 3rd person lost her credit card. As best she knew it was in her purse in my car parked at the trailhead. We saw no signs of forced entry. Turned out I was missing a card too! Wallet was there, cash in the wallet, but one card was gone! I was able to contact my bank even though it was late Saturday, and got the card shutdown. My friend, however, had to wait till she got home Sunday, and so called her credit card company Monday morning. Too late - someone had hit her account for +$3000. It remains a mystery to this day, what happened to those credit cards. 

Fast forward some months, maybe a year or two. I was with that same partner. We went into a gear store, I don't remember the reason why. Inside, we sort of separated as I was looking at one thing while he, another. Making my way back across the store I spotted him. He did this weird gesture, which I came to quickly understand he was looking around for observers, and I then watched him unbeknown, as he quickly stuffed a guidebook in his pants. I saw him do it. I was shocked, so shocked I couldn't bring myself to question or challenge him. I should have, my own failing. Later, not that day, he was openly using the stolen guidebook. He thought it was weird I never wanted to look at it.

It took me a while, I'm slow. But I started connecting dots.

I just stopped climbing with him. I always had a reason, an excuse. Eventually we stopped communicating.

There you go, sketchy partners.

Oofie, I had a similar thing. Took a day trip down to Seattle with an acquaintance and occasional climbing partner. The whole way down they didn't really seem like they wanted to talk about anything but themselves and their opinions. Not a great start.

 We went to the REI flagship, and then Feathered Friends across the street. On the way back to the car from Feathered Friends, they say "look what I got!" and excitedly pulled a pair of belay glasses with the tag out of their pocket. I asked if they had nabbed those from REI, but they said no it was from Feathered Friends. Say what you will about stealing from giant corporations, but in my opinion stealing from your local manufacturing company and gear shop and is totally indefensible. I got pretty pissed off with them, but they just tried to blow it off and said they didn't really see what the problem was.

Needless to say, this soured my relationship with them...

I bumped into a classmate from university at the gym. We had been close in Uni but lost touch over the years. We made plans to climb the following week.

We meet up at the gym a few days later and tie into a toprope. I do a climb, my buddy does a climb, and as I am lowering him near the ground I expect him to come onto his legs but he just kicks them out perfectly parallel to the ground. I pause when he's at a perfect standing height waiting for him to put his feet down but he motions me to continue lowering. I lower him onto his butt. He did this every time. I even told him, "You know you can just put your feet out and I'll lower you onto your legs, you know, so you're standing?" He says, "Nah, I'm just gonna sit down after anyways."

So there we were, climbing for like 3 hours. Each time I lower him as he nears the ground he kicks his feet out straight and lowers onto his bum-bum like a total gumby. There were other things wrong with this guy like he kept his chalkbag clipped to one of his gear loops, never brought a water bottle and drank out of mine, wouldn't fucking re-fill it after draining it, was a total misogynist, never brought snacks and asked "Halvsies?!?!" each time I would bust out a granola bar, but that lowering onto his ass thing was a contributing reason why I do not keep in touch with this dude. 

Mork M wrote:

I bumped into a classmate from university at the gym. We had been close in Uni but lost touch over the years. We made plans to climb the following week.

We meet up at the gym a few days later and tie into a toprope. I do a climb, my buddy does a climb, and as I am lowering him near the ground I expect him to come onto his legs but he just kicks them out perfectly parallel to the ground. I pause when he's at a perfect standing height waiting for him to put his feet down but he motions me to continue lowering. I lower him onto his butt. He did this every time. I even told him, "You know you can just put your feet out and I'll lower you onto your legs, you know, so you're standing?" He says, "Nah, I'm just gonna sit down after anyways."

So there we were, climbing for like 3 hours. Each time I lower him as he nears the ground he kicks his feet out straight and lowers onto his bum-bum like a total gumby. There were other things wrong with this guy like he kept his chalkbag clipped to one of his gear loops, never brought a water bottle and drank out of mine, wouldn't fucking re-fill it after draining it, was a total misogynist, never brought snacks and asked "Halvsies?!?!" each time I would bust out a granola bar, but that lowering onto his ass thing was a contributing reason why I do not keep in touch with this dude. 

I frequently lower straight into sitting on the mats in the gym if i'm not climbing another route and im gonna take my shoes off. I generally go for a cross legged configuration though. If i'm really worked sometimes I lower straight to lying down and take a little nap. Everything else seems pretty uncool about this dude though.

Mork M wrote: So there we were, climbing for like 3 hours. Each time I lower him as he nears the ground he kicks his feet out straight and lowers onto his bum-bum like a total gumby. There were other things wrong with this guy like he kept his chalkbag clipped to one of his gear loops, never brought a water bottle and drank out of mine, wouldn't fucking re-fill it after draining it, was a total misogynist, never brought snacks and asked "Halvsies?!?!" each time I would bust out a granola bar, but that lowering onto his ass thing was a contributing reason why I do not keep in touch with this dude. 

This one cracked me up I can’t lie. I’m imagining escaping the belay and tying him to a floor anchor at a height where should he put his feet down he’d be able to untie.

I have always had a few great pals that were never a problem and we always had fun. At a certain point there were a lot of hangers on who wanted to join in. These others would come along but never bring a rope or their own gear. They would rarely lead anything but would be quick to take laps on a TR. If they drove, they would take their own car because they had to leave early. Basically they would milk it and bail. I didn't want to be rude. My solution was to say I have started guiding. Half days are this much and full days are this much. I am not climbing for fun any more and need to make some extra money. Lets go any time you want. That took care of it. I would still climb with my favored friends and word got around and I picked up some nice clients on the side who were much more appreciative of what they were getting because they were paying for it. I guided for about ten years and then stopped because things were getting more professional and liability became an issue once I owned a house. Now things are great. No guiding. Just fun with the good guys or once in a while with an old friend.

Jake Jones wrote:

That might mean you're sketchy, though somehow I doubt that.  Your wit betrays you as a thoughtful and intelligent person.

I’ve had my moments. But thank you kindly, and, yes, in reality I try to be a good partner. 

nowhere wrote:

I frequently lower straight into sitting on the mats in the gym if i'm not climbing another route and im gonna take my shoes off. I generally go for a cross legged configuration though. If i'm really worked sometimes I lower straight to lying down and take a little nap. Everything else seems pretty uncool about this dude though.

Lowering onto the ground is fine, to be clear that’s not the issue I had. My problem was that this guy would stick his feet out perfectly straight,  and hold the rope just above his knot to keep himself sitting up straight. Imagine a perfect “L” being lowered onto the ground. Back straight, legs straight and tight together. 

Mork M wrote:

So there we were, climbing for like 3 hours. Each time I lower him as he nears the ground he kicks his feet out straight and lowers onto his bum-bum like a total gumby. There were other things wrong with this guy like he kept his chalkbag clipped to one of his gear loops, never brought a water bottle and drank out of mine, wouldn't fucking re-fill it after draining it, was a total misogynist, never brought snacks and asked "Halvsies?!?!" each time I would bust out a granola bar, but that lowering onto his ass thing was a contributing reason why I do not keep in touch with this dude. 

This guy sounds like a character that Magnus would play as a prank in one of his videos pretending to be a gumby lol

Good friend had been a gym boulderer for years then stopped. Then I started climbing. I and my 13yo and him go outdoor climbing. I assumed he could top rope belay. My kid led a climb and then my friend was going to top rope, and he couldn't remember or didn't know how to do the figure 8 for his harness. So I was like um nevermind. I guess I'm belaying all day. That's all. 

I guest passed him to my gym a bunch of times and we top roped there a bunch and now I'm looking forward to some fall climbing with him.