Bioavailable Proteins - Post a day

Gentle reminder that the title of this thread is not “Argue about your diets (novels only)”. 

Bruno Schull wrote:

I think it would be naive to beleive that the agriculture and meat industry is not pouring millions of dollars into pro meat lobbying, campaigns, influencers, and so on.  It's an enormous industry, it has huge amounts of money, and we should expect it to behave just like the oil industry, the automobile industry, the tobacco industry, and so on.  I think a most of the pro-meat hype comes from this source.  There is no equivalent plant-based lobby, certainly not with the financial and political resources of the meat industry.  

I would argue there IS an equivalent plant based lobby. Fake meat brands have certainly dumped money into the industry, and isn't Bill Gates a huge advocate/lobbyist for it all? And somebody has to be funding 'documentaries' like What The Health, The Twin Experiment, etc. 

Bruno, that was brilliant.

I have always wondered on this type of diet why it tends to gravitate towards beef? If you were truly dedicated, wouldn’t it be primarily fish and venison?  Or bugs and grubs as others have mentioned? Depends on how far back you want to look.

Eating of domesticated cattle, whether munching on grass or not, can’t be older than a few thousand years. If we’re meat eaters by nature, then it’s certainly not beef

Is beef the superfood because it’s so much easier to fill your freezer with than venison. Free range cattle seem to walk a few hundred steps a day, mostly stand around and have shit running down their leg. Where as a deer or elk lives the life of an athlete. How do you call that the same thing?

If you’re really serious about your red meat diet, seems like you’ve got to give up your fall climbing plans, and get a big ol chest freezer in your house. Otherwise, you’re just a consumer.

This statement was sponsored by the Metamucil lobby.

Unfortunately, one can only bear to repeat themselves so many times as clearly as possible and not receive any meaningful pushback. I'll make a long form youtube video about animal-based dieting and rock climbing performance, establishing my own 23 year passion for diet(I gave up fast food when I was 10 based on internet research I was doing), my diet history, my learning, and an aggregation of all of that knowledge, into a reasonable, rational, and hopefully informative video. People can't comprehend a 5,000 word forum post, let alone 100s(if not thousands) of cited studies I've read and aggregated through my rational brain. Couple quick things:

% Daily values, as listed on all food products, are the LOWEST value of a particular nutrient an average person should get in their daily, unathletic diet. Meaning hitting 100% DV is a minimum number, not a maximum number. Are you offended by a label when it says you're only getting 12% of your DV of calcium and 6% of thiamin from whatever food product? Who are they to say how much YOU need? You're a special human with different baseline nutritional requirements than the rest of us, and you have to go on your OWN journey to figure it out. I can't roll my eyes hard enough.

Permabeta:Base nutrition is calories in/calories out. I eat a low-carb diet because I eat a high-fat diet. If on average you burn 2,000 calories a day, you won't get fat no matter where you're sourcing those calories from. So the question is "how do I fit as much usable nutrition as possible into a healthy amount of calories?" Sugar would be "empty calories" as we say lol. Nutrient dense foods(steak/fish/eggs) are high fat, so you cut the low-nutrient or low digestibility foods(carbs,most vegetables) and eat 2,000ish calories(or your level of training) of nutrient-dense foods.

Spope: I'm not hungry when I say I've eaten barely anything at all. Quite the opposite. I'm saying I've eaten nutrient-dense food, without unnecessary load on my system, which was the OP's original question. How to add more nutrition without feeling like you're eating all day.

Grug: Thank you, if only you find it informative, I've done a good job lol.

Mr. Rogers: I'll say a third time, I'd change my mind in an instant. You don't come to learn anything by being resistant to learning. Unfortunately, nobody here is making any sort of reasonable, rationed arguments about the nutritional points I've repeated over and over again. I never thought I'd say this, but except for my sworn-enemy and nemesis, Bruno Schull. Rogers reference % Daily values and base caloric needs if you think nutrition is personal.

Andy Shoemaker: I said earlier creatine is endogenous, you've provided another (weak)study supporting what I'm saying. What I also said is "not enough" which is true. The questions you need to ask yourself to form a healthy diet are, "Is 1 gram of endogenous creatine enough for my level of physical activity? Why is creatine important, what purpose does it serve in the body? Do I know any better about my creatine intake since I've likely never gotten 3/4g? If I needed more creatine, where would I get it from? Creatine from a lab? Why is this essential nutrient abundant in steak anyway, and why does the human body run on it in the first place?"  "If it's from a lab, why not just source it from steak?" Considering there's about 100,000 published studies on creatine, you have your work cut out for you.

David Jefferson: Just trolling you, I'm sure you're a good climber. Like the sour patch kid kid, you should look into the nutrient deficiencies I've mentioned, if for nothing other than entertainment value.

Jonathan Walker: Every food label is telling you you're unhealthy if you don't hit your % Daily Values. I don't care at all what sort of diet anybody eats, I'm just here to share information. 

Kyle Edmondson: I'll post photos of my own plant-based self at 27 vs. my own animal-based self at 33 in the youtube video and you tell me if you can spot the differences. You ever see a heroin addict or a meth head? Do they have a certain look to them? Sullen, pimply, sallow, strung out. Maybe you know one person who you couldn't tell. What about a 285-pound balloon-y roid head? We're talking about averages. Plant-based or vegan eaters have certain look to them. I can make an educated guess at that.

Bruno: We can save the evolution talk for email. I'm not sure what camp you lie in, but Mr. Rogers and many people in this thread seem to think that we can't even decide what a healthy human diet is because we're all so genetically different. Apparently, we're also genetically almost identical to bananas(what is funny, is that we are lol). You guys have some deciding to do as to what line of discussion you want to take for consistency. 

Digestion is a great point, we have an incredibly small digestive tract, and another reason why bioavailable and nutrient-dense foods are so important. You have a very limited time to suck as much usable nutrition from food before it reaches the end of those 30-odd feet. 30-odd feet of intestines? How dare you, I'm a different type of person and it's on me to figure out what intestinal length works FOR ME.

I don't think the brain got larger because of protein consumption, I think it got larger because of heme iron, Omega 3 fat, and cholesterol consumption, since that's mostly what it's made of. Maybe the muscle growth allowed us to catch and kill larger prey. We'll never be able to establish hard facts about this stuff from 2.7 MYA, so let's aggregate data and use our human rational brains to THINK about it. If the brain is primarily composed of Omega 3 fats, and the muscles primarily composed of proteins, and we wanted to increase the size of those things over millions of years of evolution, what might we incorporate into the diet? Could it be...hmm...Omega 3 fats and bioavailable amino acids? Where do those come from?

I agree with your take on the politics of dieting, which is why I find the climate "scientists" particularly reprehensible in their disdain for humanity as they recommend horrific diets.

I'm done for real and unfollowing, like, comment, subscribe and tell your friends about my youtube channel. (Trolling, I will never say this in a video or in any serious manner ever.)

Edit:@flatulation, missed your post. All ruminant animals share similar characteristics in terms of nutrient content. I would love to eat venison year round. Or giraffe. For hilarity.

It's not meat, it’s the carbs. Dave here eats just the patties without the bread or anything else. This experiment contrasts well with the “supersize me” one to make that point.

Kyle Edmondson wrote:

Long Ranger,

I just wanted to chime in for your sake.  Understand, I am only doing this for your benefit.  It is clear that this focus on your picture and how it shows the flaws in your diet is misguided.  But, from your sentence structure it is clear that your sleep cycles are off, and that is what is causing your impotence.  And again, this statement is for your benefit, and not offensive (note, I did not say that I do not intend it to be offensive - but that it is not offensive, an important distinction).  We've all been there, but once I started timing my naps better, everything was better for me, and it will be for you as well.  Definitively.  I've done the research.

Now, you may ask for support of my claims.  Fair enough, but I already told you I did the research.  If you disagree, feel free to respond.  Just don't cite doctors - I don't trust them (a bunch of lackeys and yes men toeing the company line - give me a vet any day).  Seriously, we all know doctors have said things that are wrong before.  Q.E.D.

Why believe me?  I'm a lateral thinker. For example, I know the Earth is flat.  There is ample evidence (not all got suppressed) that is there for all of us if we just look. And, stating this fringe position should in no way call into question my scientific judgement.  

In closing, Your Welcome. 

Lone Ranger is impotent?  I saw it too, in his picture.   

Excellent post. 

Eric Marx wrote:

Kyle Edmondson: I'll post photos of my own plant-based self at 27 vs. my own animal-based self at 33 in the youtube video and you tell me if you can spot the differences. You ever see a heroin addict or a meth head? Do they have a certain look to them? Sullen, pimply, sallow, strung out. Maybe you know one person who you couldn't tell. What about a 285-pound balloon-y roid head? We're talking about averages. Plant-based or vegan eaters have certain look to them. I can make an educated guess at that.

ICYMI

I don't have a strong opinion, but I do know that people who preach a specific diet and make that a key part of their personality are some of the most annoying folks out there.

Todd Berlier wrote:

I'll post some science: 

The Effects of High-Protein Diets on Kidney Health and Longevity

"The recommended daily allowance for protein intake is 0.83 g/kg per day and is calculated to meet the requirements of 97%–98% of the population (two SD above the estimated average requirement).1"

Eric Marx wrote:

ICYMI

Eric, that is awesome.  I am more than happy to diagnose and treat your sexual dysfunction.  Those pictures should provide me more than enough info.

Lmfao, amazing, I'm dying.

Not only am I working off Long Ranger's photo, but also his minimal description of his nutrient-deficit diet.

I'll provide additional photos for your particular type of analysis but you'll have to subscribe to my OnlyFans. @headpointhand-something-or-other

Todd Berlier wrote:

I saw a YouTube video of a guy that only eats bread, pea and soy protein powder and a multi vitamin. He climbs 5.13 trad and boulders V12!

Statistically, this is very possible and although 5.13 trad is rare, likely not unique.   

Todd Berlier wrote:

I saw a YouTube video of a guy that only eats bread, pea and soy protein powder and a multi vitamin. He climbs 5.13 trad and boulders V12!

But does he have the sallow, somewhat unhealthy look of a plant eater?

I really enjoyed my conversations with Marc-Andre Leclerc. I never got any negativity from his aura and enjoyed his genuine curiosity. Not every day you meet and interact with an individual with a light like that in their eyes.

I also admired his ability to to take his mental ability to his physical ability and limits of his skill. Surely no different than some chuffer on mountain project climbing that 5.7R route and commenting beta that is not that bad.

Miss that guy 

Hey guys, back from a trip! What'd I miss?

Best source of protein is from milk.   

Andy Shoemaker wrote:

It looks like you are sticking to a veggie/pescatarian focused routine- which I do as well, given that I'm capable of caring about my health and other things.  I also am on a budget so I'm always looking for responsible, quality AND economical nutrition.  Whole foods above any dogma.

Some things I eat regularly to add protein- 

Split pea soup- you can find the Amy's Organic on sale for $2/can.  I usually eat 2 cans in a serving, 380cal and 24g protein.  Plus a whole grain bread for another few grams of protein. Super easy lunch.

Lazy man's canned tuna salad - you can find line caught Wild Planet at Costco.  Sometimes for as low as $2.25/can on sale. 1 can with some veganaise, sriracha, TJs green goddess seasoning is like 250cal and 33g of protein. I add some brown rice cakes for another few grams of protein.  Another easy lunch (add a side salad)/snack.

My go to breakfast is 1/2cup of Bob's Red Mill steel cut oats (8g protein) and 2+ tbsp of nut butter (8+ g protein), a banana, 1/2cup of Oatly (3g protein) and 1/4cup salted hazelnuts (4g protein). Whole meal is less than $5 if you shop around.

We cook with Banza pasta at least once a week- usually fresh kale pesto from greens and herbs from our garden.  Banza is chickpea based and is about 20-25g of protein per serving depending on how American you portion is.  It's good cold as pasta salad.  Good with red sauce.  Good with just some olive oil and raw veg.

We rotate out dinner protein- tofu, tempeh, pumfu (pumpkin based tofu- so tasty, kinda $$), Costco salmon patties, fresh PNW salmon or steelhead, the occasional Beyond burger.  This is a pretty good variety of protein sources (soy, pumpkin, chickpea, pea, 2 or more types of fish) plus some probiotics from the tempeh.  My wife (who is a practicing nutritionist (CNS) with her MS in nutrition) doesn't do wheat for gut health (check out leaky gut), but I sometimes eat seitan and she regularly eats eggs, so we each have 6-7 protein sources we rotate through.

I try and stay away from soy protein isolate because there's a good amount of recent research about some negative impacts of regular consumption.

This is about as optimized we can manage given our current resources.  We prioritize the quality of the ingredients as much as our budget allows- shop at the local co-op from local farms, nearly 100% organic, grow as much as we can in Seattle's sometimes short growing season which is about half of our produce for 4-5 months/yr. More each year as I get better at gardening.  In an ideal world it would only be fish caught by the local fisheries, no canned fish or Costco salmon patties, just locally fresh or cured fish.  But we just can't afford $20/lb+ several days a week.

I have never tried pumfu but I’m interested in it. I see the brand foodies, is that what you get?

Li Hu wrote:

Best source of protein is from milk.   

Absolutely not. 

Connor Hale wrote:

I have never tried pumfu but I’m interested in it. I see the brand foodies, is that what you get?

Yeah we are able to buy the Foodies brand by the case at our local Co-op for a better price.  It's super tasty.  A little drier than tofu so we either press it for a short length of time and then marinate it for longer than we would tofu.  Or use it as like sausage meat that's more appetizing in a slightly more crumbly texture.  It's got a little more fat content than tofu and just in general a more savory, rich taste.  We don't mind the fat since we're both naturally lean (for now, check back in 10 yrs) and running a calorie deficit most days so we'd be adding EVOO anyway and just use less oil when cooking to get the similar fat content.  

It's also good unpressed, pan fried in 1/8" of avo oil and then covered in a sauce- we like a peanut butter/lime/tamari/ginger combo for example.  Super quick, by the time the brown rice is out of the cooker, the broccoli is steamed and the avocado sliced you have an easy 15 min of work, 30min total meal containing a whole grain, a cruci veg, quality protein and gut microbiome food (combo of soluble and insoluble fiber, aka prebiotoics) with somewhere between 30-40g of protein depending on your portion.  Pumpkin doesn't have a large ratio of Lysine so the avocado and PB are a good compliment to keep the amino acid profile more neutral.

Has anyone looked into the pure Amino Acid supplements......they are being advertised like crazy lately.

They claim to provide the essential AA's without adding calories to your diet.

Anyway....just curious on this.....

example article   cambridge.org/core/journals…