Bioavailable Proteins - Post a day

Jonathan Walker wrote:

You don’t need animal proteins to perform at a high level, and anyone who believes this is deluded. Innumerable examples of elite athletes who are doing just fine without them.

I believe you you, but there are a whole lot more that are doing better with, regardless of whether or not you want to admit it 

PWZ wrote:

I believe you you, but there are a whole lot more that are doing better with, regardless of whether or not you want to admit it 

Because our society is predominantly raised to be carnivorous. That tells me nothing.

Jonathan Walker wrote:  You don’t need animal proteins to perform at a high level, and anyone who believes this is deluded. Innumerable examples of elite athletes who are doing just fine without them.

PWZ wrote: I believe you you, but there are a whole lot more that are doing better with, regardless of whether or not you want to admit it 

Jonathan Walker wrote:

Because our society is predominantly raised to be carnivorous. That tells me nothing.

"I have an strong opinion and here's my anecdote."

"Oh, well here's a different anecdote."

"Anecdotes tell me nothing."

Come on folks... it was going pretty well. In any case post up your day like OP asked!

I started climbing when I was 65, and it didn't take long for me to realize that if I didn't change my diet, I would't be able to continue.  (I also happen to be a Type 1 Diabetic with Celiac so there's that...)

I envy people who can eat whatever the hell they want.  I can't.  With the help of a registered dietician I moved towards the diet that made a difference.  I shoot for 100-120 grams of protein daily, 3-4 liters of water with electrolytes, 4000 mg of potassium -- and the rest of the macro and micro nutrients pretty much follow.  It helps to use Cronometer or MyFitnessPal to really track.  Today's menu:

Breakfast - Denver Omelet 

3 eggs  -  18 g protein

2.5 oz ham - 15 g protein

veggies

1 slice cheese  - 4 gm protein  

1 slice gf toast  - 1 gm protein  

4 oz orange juice

2 tsp ghee

---------

Lunch - Turkey Sandwich

2 oz turkey  -   9 gm protein

1 slice gf bread - 1 gm protein

veggies/ mayo

Snack - Protein Shake

Protein Shake - The Whole Feast (beef)  20 gm protein

1 scoop collagen - 10 gm protein

1 banana

1/2 bran muffin 

 Dinner - Pot Roast

5 oz chuck roast  - 38 gm protein

carrots, potatoes, peas, onions

slice of gf baguette with ghee  

Total = 116 gm protein + or -

There are plenty of studies to support increased protein needs for people over 65--even totally sedentary seniors.  I have seen studies for younger athletes advising .8-1.2 gm protein per pound of body weight.  For me, as an older climber (female, diabetic etc), I've just experimented until I feel good and am building muscle, not tearing it down.  It's been a long journey, and certainly not perfect yet.

I also add the following as 'supplements':

1 oz beef liver daily (in Ancestral Supplements caps) 

Omega 3s, dha/epa and gla

1-2 Tbsp nutritional unfortified yeast, as desired

1-2 tbsp Hemp seed in my protein shake

I'm about to add 'green shelled mussels' .but taking time to work up to this.  It is the favorite supplement of one of the healthiest people I know... so, I'm staring at the bottle another couple of days, then I'll dive in.      

PWZ wrote:

Figure out if that's a real issue. I eat a half dozen+ or so a day, in addition to all sorts of other animal/"red" meat proteins a day, and my yearly bloodwork hasn't popped any concern, at 46 years old.

I used to think that eggs were a double edged sword due to the dietary cholesterol they include.  But a lot recent studies have shown that dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol don't have much of a correlation.  Your LDL is more closely correlated to your intake of saturated fat. So, many animal products... bacon, cheese, butter, cured meat, sausage, etc.  The only rich source of plant saturated fat is coconut.

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2023/08/25/heres-the-latest-on-dietary-cholesterol-and-how-it-fits-in-with-a-healthy-diet

I still don't eat them because I find the smell totally revolting.  Top 3 least favorite smells along with BO and buttered popcorn.

Damn, Lori Milas making every middle aged man in this thread look soft with her diet. Seems to be climbing about as hard as all of them too. Good on you!

I don’t lift weights beyond antagonist maintenance stop saying this! Haha I’m a climber through and through. 

JCM, if I said “I found something that works for me, I don’t need any water” or “I found something that works for me, I don’t need calcium for my bones” I think you would take issue with those statements.

But people believe they can shirk other essential nutrients like creatine, animal-sourced DHA/EPA omega 3s, or complete bioavailable proteins itself, and somehow this is dogmatic, or bro-sciencey. No, it’s simply science(which you recognize.) Saying you have a healthy diet but you eat a diet devoid of creatine is like saying you’re well-hydrated but you don’t drink water. I’m confused by this “individuality” concept, because find me a human whose bones aren’t calcium, whose brain isn’t cholesterol/omega3/choline/creatine, whose muscles aren’t composed of amino acids, whose body isn’t filled with water.

It’s not dogma, and hilariously, millions of years of human evolutionary eating isn’t a “fad.” (@Bruno)Whatever the climate “scientists”(I use this word as loosely as possible)concocted in the last 10 years is the fad. Going to your local farm and buying 1/2 a cow and freezing the meat for 3 months is way more environmentally friendly than whatever you think you’re doing.

I’m just going to chime in here as a physician who has specific training in nutrition, and does nutrition counseling: 

There is some really poor advice here. I’d recommend you see a true professional (RD, sports nutritionist, or physician with nutrition training), and not get nutrition advice on mountain project.

Ryan K wrote:

I’m just going to chime in here as a physician who has specific training in nutrition, and does nutrition counseling: 

There is some really poor advice here. I’d recommend you see a true professional (RD, sports nutritionist, or physician with nutrition training), and not get nutrition advice on mountain project.

I mean this as respectfully as I can, but we’re here asking for tips on MP because our physicians recommended we replace our butter with margarine in the 60s, low fat-high carb diets in the 70s, had us avoid food cholesterol in the 80s… so why is it different this time? I’m not doubting your knowledge or credentials, I’m just saying the skepticism comes honestly.

After consulting with my nutritionist Dr. Guapogote, who was awarded an honorary doctorate in intersectional cosmetology from Oberlin, 

I decided to incorporate more whole grains like oatmeal into my diet.

Seriously though, good thread so far. I just decided to start tracking my protein intake after getting three finger injuries (A2, A4, DIP). These happened during a two-month period when I was working at a summer therapy camp and my protein intake dropped significantly due to Gordon Food Service.

5'10a" 145lb so I'm shooting for 120g per day to achieve the 0.8g / lb standard.

My normal diet is an "everything in moderation" approach with an emphasis on leafy greens. Homemade shakes with Vital Proteins collagen and peanut butter for an extra 25g.

This talk of bioavailability has got me feeling like I just sent a year-long project and then it got downgraded. :-( 

Today's intake, which was low on non-smoothie vegetables:

- Aldi protein granola with soymilk (15g)

- Breakfast sandwich with two eggs, three chicken sausage links and cheese on Aldi seedtastic bread (20g)

- Shake with spinach, collagen, PB, soymilk (25g)

- Grass-fed 1/3lb cheeseburger (20g)

- Homemade calzone with pepperoni, bacon, mozzarella (25g)

- Another shake (25g)

Hey Eric (or anybody else wanting to chime in), you seem like you really know what you're talking about with up to date nutrition. Would you mind explaining a bit about saturated fat and its role? It's one of those things (like red meat and butter) that have been vilified for years but seems to actually be quite important for performance and energy, as well as long term health. Is that accurate? I'm particularly curious because I do best with quite a bit of beef but I mostly stick with cheaper fatty cuts due to budget (I figure grass finished cheap cuts from local ranchers are much better than nicer cuts from the grocery store) and am curious what that does for performance. Thanks!

Spopepro O. wrote:

I mean this as respectfully as I can, but we’re here asking for tips on MP because our physicians recommended we replace our butter with margarine in the 60s, low fat-high carb diets in the 70s, had us avoid food cholesterol in the 80s… so why is it different this time? I’m not doubting your knowledge or credentials, I’m just saying the skepticism comes honestly.

I don’t disagree with you on that point at all. And, most doctors really don’t know much about nutrition. My only point is, there are a lot of fads right now that fly in the face of very solid nutritional understanding, and internet/podcast nutrition advice can be pretty shaky.

Spopepro O. wrote:

I mean this as respectfully as I can, but we’re here asking for tips on MP because our physicians recommended we replace our butter with margarine in the 60s, low fat-high carb diets in the 70s, had us avoid food cholesterol in the 80s… so why is it different this time? I’m not doubting your knowledge or credentials, I’m just saying the skepticism comes honestly.

It would be crazy to think that today’s physician has infallible knowledge of their subject, and that includes the subject of nutrition. But is the guess that people who know even less will be MORE likely to have arrived at the truth?

I suspect a well trained nutritionist will give you some bad advice, but an untrained one will give you mostly bad advice. Not that the forum level nutrition guru is being malicious or anything; it’s  just that one-offs, anecdotes, and misunderstanding uncertainties don’t lead to solid knowledge. 

Eric Marx wrote:

You probably can if you prioritize your health over coffee, pancakes and whiskey ;)

Coffee is arguably one of the healthiest things one can consume. It decreases risk for multiple diseases, improves athletic performance and longevity.

Red meat, while high in protein, isn’t exactly a health food. A lot of protein is fine while building muscle and recovering from strenuous exercise, but won’t help you live longer. On the contrary, excessive protein intake, particularly from sources rich in certain amino acids (ex. methionine) may shorten lifespan. 

Agree about the pancakes and whiskey. 

Long Ranger wrote:

I can't afford beef  > 1x a week let along 14. 

You can only afford a single serving of beef one time per week?

What do you eat???

F r i t z wrote:

After consulting with my nutritionist Dr. Guapogote, who was awarded an honorary doctorate in intersectional cosmetology from Oberlin, 

I decided to incorporate more whole grains like oatmeal into my diet.

Seriously though, good thread so far. I just decided to start tracking my protein intake after getting three finger injuries (A2, A4, DIP). These happened during a two-month period when I was working at a summer therapy camp and my protein intake dropped significantly due to Gordon Food Service.

5'10a" 145lb so I'm shooting for 120g per day to achieve the 0.8g / lb standard.

My normal diet is an "everything in moderation" approach with an emphasis on leafy greens. Homemade shakes with Vital Proteins collagen and peanut butter for an extra 25g.

This talk of bioavailability has got me feeling like I just sent a year-long project and then it got downgraded. :-( 

Today's intake, which was low on non-smoothie vegetables:

- Aldi protein granola with soymilk (15g)

- Breakfast sandwich with two eggs, three chicken sausage links and cheese on Aldi seedtastic bread (20g)

- Shake with spinach, collagen, PB, soymilk (25g)

- Grass-fed 1/3lb cheeseburger (20g)

- Homemade calzone with pepperoni, bacon, mozzarella (25g)

- Another shake (25g)

Though it’s been criticized, the USDA recommends a minimum protein intake of 0.8g/KG, not pound of body weight. Active individuals need more (like 1-1.6 g/kg), but unless you’re building muscle, you probably don’t need 0.8 gram/lb.

How did you determine that was the standard?

Spopepro O. wrote:

Rice. It’s why rice and beans successfully fuels a vast majority of the world. However I understand that it’s a somewhat moot point in the affluent world as our diets are pretty diverse. Only matters when all you have are dried staples and whatever you might be able to grow yourself if you’re lucky enough to have access to land and water. 

IIRC Biology classes at school taught me that white rice had the outer layer containing most of the protein removed. That was over 50 years ago however!

No expert.....apologies if this has already been mentioned in the thread.

i shore wrote:

IIRC Biology classes at school taught me that white rice had the outer layer containing most of the protein removed. That was over 50 years ago however!

No expert.....apologies if this has already been mentioned in the thread.

Nah.... The 'bran' layer is mostly fiber and fat, and micro-nutrients, not protein.

The fat turns rancid eventually, becoming not-so-bueno. Same thing as whole-wheat vs white flour. 

Permabeta wrote:

Though it’s been criticized, the USDA recommends a minimum protein intake of 0.8g/KG, not pound of body weight. Active individuals need more (like 1-1.6 g/kg), but unless you’re building muscle, you probably don’t need 0.8 gram/lb.

How did you determine that was the standard?

Various sources like the Mayo Clinic . My weekly exercise load is six hours of training, three hours of running and one hour of lifting.

F r i t z wrote:

Various sources like the Mayo Clinic . My weekly exercise load is six hours of training, three hours of running and one hour of lifting.

Fritz, your article supports what Permabeta said.  I think a lot of people get mixed up, misled or misspelled with g/lb and g/kg.  Mayo Clinic and ACSM are good sources as long as we keep our units of measure the same.

Todd Jenkins wrote:

Fritz, your article supports what Permabeta said.  I think a lot of people get mixed up, misled or misspelled with g/lb and g/kg.  Mayo Clinic and ACSM are good sources as long as we keep our units of measure the same.

Hmm, where am I getting my math wrong?

145 lb = 65.7 kg

65.7 x 1.7g= 111.7g daily protein intake