Sunscreen: what are you using, and when/how are you applying?

WF WF51 wrote:

There have been more brands of sunscreen that have been recalled for causing cancer and causing other chronic conditions than not over the past 20 years so I avoid it.

Do you have any references, case studies, case series, or review articles? What type of malignancies, what are the risk factors, what type of sunscreen did the patients use, how much, how often, where was it applied, and duration of use? What ingredient or ingredients of the sunscreens were identified as the cause of the malignancy? Co-morbidities that could be confounders?  Any patients have occupational or environmental exposure to a carcinogen?  What are the chronic conditions that sunscreen has caused?

 

Decades ago lots of sunscreens contained paba which was found to be carcinogenic.  I didn't think any sunscreen has had that ingredient for roughly 30 years.  Paba is banned in many countries; sadly it appears the FDA has not banned it.

I would avoid aerosol mineral sunscreens, there is some concerns that the nano particles can harm your lungs.

The FDA is basically not modernizing its sunscreen regulations.  

Google paba for more information 

WF WF51 wrote:

Do you have any references, case studies, case series, or review articles? What type of malignancies, what are the risk factors, what type of sunscreen did the patients use, how much, how often, where was it applied, and duration of use? What ingredient or ingredients of the sunscreens were identified as the cause of the malignancy? Co-morbidities that could be confounders?  Any patients have occupational or environmental exposure to a carcinogen?  What are the chronic conditions that sunscreen has caused? 

Not to speak on behalf of someone else, but I think they were referencing benzene that was found in contaminated sunscreen: 

https://pirg.org/edfund/resources/sunscreen-and-the-carcinogen-benzene-what-to-know-to-protect-yourself/

This article described it as a "handful" of products. Absolutely inexcusable, but I don't feel the amount would cause cancer, but certainly contribute towards it, if someone is being exposed to benzene in other places of their lives, like smoking. Or forest fires. Or gas stations.

I was today years old when I found out sunscreen is now politicized.... 

Kyle Elliott wrote:

I was today years old when I found out sunscreen is now politicized.... 

...don't think: just consume?

Baron, ED. Selection of Sunscreen and Sun-Protective Measures. UpToDate. July 2024. 

Pantelic MN, Wong N, Kwa M, Lim HW. Ultraviolet Filters in the US and European Union: A review of safety and implications for the future of US sunscreens. J Am Acad Derm. 2023;8(3):632-646. https:// doi. org/10. 1016/j.jaad.2022.11.039

The IARC has PABA in Category 3. 

WF WF51 wrote:

There have been more brands of sunscreen that have been recalled for causing cancer and causing other chronic conditions than not over the past 20 years so I avoid it.

Do you have any references, case studies, case series, or review articles? What type of malignancies, what are the risk factors, what type of sunscreen did the patients use, how much, how often, where was it applied, and duration of use? What ingredient or ingredients of the sunscreens were identified as the cause of the malignancy? Co-morbidities that could be confounders?  Any patients have occupational or environmental exposure to a carcinogen?  What are the chronic conditions that sunscreen has caused?

 

https://www.gblawyers.com/sunscreen-lawsuit/

This is the law firm representing the plaintiffs in the class action. Active. 

Nick Budka wrote:

https://www.gblawyers.com/sunscreen-lawsuit/

This is the law firm representing the plaintiffs in the class action. Active. 

It seems for the the sunscreens named there as having benzene, they are mostly spray sunscreens. That...kinda checks out. It isn't wild to think that spraying an aerosol can into your face is a bad idea. 

I don't think this is an indictment of the idea of sunscreen in general, but perhaps suggests caution around using spray sunscreens (which have various other issues anyway), and a general need for better consumer protections.

Seeing this lawsuit and concluding "sunscreen gives you cancer, I should stay away from all of it" is definitely the wrong conclusion.

JCM wrote:

It seems for the the sunscreens named there as having benzene, they are mostly spray sunscreens. That...kinda checks out. It isn't wild to think that spraying an aerosol can into your face is a bad idea. 

I don't think this is an indictment of the idea of sunscreen in general, but perhaps suggests caution around using spray sunscreens (which have various other issues anyway), and a general need for better consumer protections.

Seeing this lawsuit and concluding "sunscreen gives you cancer, I should stay away from all of it" is definitely the wrong conclusion.

There were several lotion sunscreens named as well and this is just products recalled in 2023. And if benzene is the problem that gets attention, what other problems might it cause? Endocrine disruption is a massive problem that doesn’t get any attention until an acute issue arises. The companies that make these products don’t exactly have a great track record for providing healthy products, its just petroleum derived drugs. Just cover your skin with clothing, don’t spend more than 30 mins in direct sun at a time and if you are going to be exposed to intense sun without clothing on, use whatever sunscreen you like, just keep the topical exposure to those chemicals as low as reasonably achievable.

Mind you, there are safe levels of sun exposure, there are no safe levels of benzene exposure. It is a known human carcinogen and can cause serious problems even in small levels. 

Nick Budka wrote:

Just cover your skin with clothing, don’t spend more than 30 mins in direct sun at a time and if you are going to be exposed to intense sun without clothing on, use whatever sunscreen you like, just keep the topical exposure to those chemicals as low as reasonably achievable.

If actually agree that this is effective, if it is feasible for you. I'm also a huge fan of hats and sun hoodies (rather than sunscreen), and climbing in the shade (not just for sun exposure reasons). 

But depending where you live and the activities you pursue, 'just" avoiding more than 30 min of direct sun exposure is wildly impractical. For instance, if you live in the mountain west and spend long days in alpine areas. At a minimum you're likely going to want some sunscreen on your face where the hat and hoody don't cover. 

I don't like wearing sunscreen, but it's the lesser evil and really a necessity given my complexion, location, and activities. I could stay out of the alpine sun ( I don't like that), or go out and not wear sunscreen (melanoma for sure). Taking my chances with any possible sunscreen effects seems the best option. Though mineral vs chemical is a reasonable debate.

JCM wrote:

If actually agree that this is reasonable and effective, if it is feasible for you. I'm a huge fan of hats and sun hoodies (rather than sunscreen), and climbing in the shade (not just for sun exposure reasons). 

But depending where you live and the activities you pursue, 'just" avoiding more than 30 min of direct sun exposure is wildly impractical. For instance, if you live in the mountain west and spend long days in alpine areas. At a minimum you're likely going to want some sunscreen on your face where the hat and hoody don't cover. Though mineral vs chemical is a reasonable debate.

I use a buff to cover my nose and ears. I did use sun screen july 23 climbing in chamonix though. I guess I trust the european products more than the usa stuff though. But that genuinely was the last time I used it. I did get burned last weekend though, only on my left thigh and I was on a canoe for about 4 hours in the middle of the day and it wasn’t bad at all, didn’t peel. Sun screen is the sort of thing I keep in my med kit and only break out if I’m properly concerned, I treat it like getting an x ray. Although I do use it on my head and neck on daytime flights, and I strongly encourage others to as well, you get bombarded by radiation on flights. 

Nick Budka wrote:

But that genuinely was the last time I used it.

If you need sunscreen so infrequently, why are you giving people who do need sunscreen any advice on how, when, and why to use it? 

Nick Budka wrote:

https://www.gblawyers.com/sunscreen-lawsuit/

This is the law firm representing the plaintiffs in the class action. Active. 

There is all the proof that is needed. 

Reminiscent of the lawsuits about the toxicity of silicon breast implants. 

there are no safe levels of benzene exposure.

Given that it's ubiquitous and we've all been exposed, it would follow that almost everyone has benzene poisoning. 

These are some useful references and a good starting point. Also, use Google Scholar; it's better than Pubmed and Scopus.  

Klassen KD. Casarett & Doull's Toxicology, 9th ed. 

Nelson LS, et al. Goldfrank's Toxicologic Emergencies, 11th ed.

Zhang Z et al. Biomarkers of Occupational Benzene Exposure: A Systematic Review to Estimate the Exposure Levels and Individual Susceptibility at Low Doses. Tox Ind Health. 2024. June. doi.org/10.1177/07482337241259

Well hey thanks for the good convo, I’ll mostly stick to fabric coverage, mineral screens, and I also copped some good stuff in Canada. Cheers yall 

FrankPS wrote:

Which sunscreens have carcinogens?

The ones with benzene and octocrylene