Tired of loose F#%$&@KING bolts...

Bolters, write in!

So. If one were indeed tired of the legion of loose bolts, and if one were to start bringing a tiny, handle-home-drilled socket wrench into the field, what FOUR or FIVE SIZES of socket heads would you bring?

Looking to find that perfect, impossible balance of maximal size distribution while MINIMIZING more stupid weight in my already bulging, brings-the-kitchen-sink pack. 

I've clipped bolts for 30+ years, but have never taken the time to figure out head sizes. (SHAME, Clang clang! SHAME...) I HAVE used that Metolious nut tool thing with the built in wrench holes, but found the action to be pretty garbage, and am ready to just bring a damn small assortment of the real deal into the field. 

Looking for numbers here, notta extended discussion on wrench/bolt theory. Dog knows how MP gets whack off topic...

I primarily climb the FRange, in WY, Idaho, throughout UT, The Red and the New...if any of that matters. And do a great deal of European/Mediterranean climbing as well, if things go metric.

Thoughts? Questions? Howls of commiserate grief? 

ALSO, would anyone recommend bringing/using locktite? Or a micro tube of caulk? Or just screw the damn thing back down. What's the advice/etiquette/best practices here? (Likely these last questions have been extensively covered before--do feel free to link any older posts if'n you care. Otherwise the first Q stands...)

Thanks!

A dab of blue loctite is acceptable, stay away from caulk. Why not just bring a small, light weight adjustable wrench?

YUP YUP...meant to cover that. NOOOOOT a fan of crescent wrenches. I SUPPOSE you could get a high quality one? I dunno. I generally find the action on THOSE to be garbage as well....but good point.

The majority of bolts heads in the US are 9/16" followed by 1/2". I would go with an offset box wrench with those two sizes,  one on each end.  If that's too buiky for you,  just bring a small crescent wrench, which is also great for opening quicklinks .  Just be careful to not round the head.  We had some 9/16" wrenches custom made out of aluminum once,  it was a nice solution for something that always stays on the harness. 

PERHAPS a can of DUSTER for your KEYBOARD while you're at the hardware store?

A little 6" adjustable crescent is the answer. Tighten until you can't move it with one finger at the end of the wrench and you won't over torque.

The five piece bolts can be tough with a crescent and hard on your knuckles while you're stripping the hex head.

I cannot recommend the tiny Knipex pliers wrench enough. it has non marring parallel jaws that can successfully squish a penny flat, exerting a tremendous amount of force. It’s extraordinarily adjustable - 0-2 inches is the tiny one I think. I use the little keychain one for unsticking seized bolts on tractors. It’s that ridiculous. Anyway, I could sing its praises for ages. 

DrRockso RRG wrote:

The majority of bolts heads in the US are 9/16" followed by 1/2". I would go with an offset box wrench with those two sizes,  one on each end.  If that's too buiky for you,  just bring a small crescent wrench, which is also great for opening quicklinks .  Just be careful to not round the head.  We had some 9/16" wrenches custom made out of aluminum once,  it was a nice solution for something that always stays on the harness. 

i'd go with that or an adjustable wrench if you're not sure on sizes or are interested in accommodating metric.

example of adjustable wrench

the downside is obviously weight and bulk...

Fits in my chalk bag and weighs next to nothing

Wes Farrar wrote:

Fits in my chalk bag and weighs next to nothing

i tend to agree with philip boone's comment above and find the offset box wrench or a socket head quite superior to a crescent wrench

Like others have said. This is the kit I usually have on hand. Quickdraw for size reference. The far left is 9/16 and 1/2 box ratcheting wrench.

When you say "loose bolts" do you mean a wedge bolt with a loose nut or a 5 piece on which the hangar spins?  The best approach for the former is a crescent wrench and blue loctite. Retorquing it to spec might not solve the problem (due to how the hangar touches the wall or the direction of pull in falls, etc.), hence the loctite. If it's the latter, you probably do not need to do anything, that's just how they are. 

Erroneous Publicus wrote:

When you say "loose bolts" do you mean a wedge bolt with a loose nut or a 5 piece on which the hangar spins?  The best approach for the former is a crescent wrench and blue loctite. Retorquing it to spec might not solve the problem (due to how the hangar touches the wall or the direction of pull in falls, etc.), hence the loctite. If it's the latter, you probably do not need to do anything, that's just how they are. 

Doing nothing could be super bad advice.  Unless it's a plated 5 peice which has corroded and seized since the bolt has been loose you should tighten it. In one instance I removed a plated 5 peice with a spinning hanger to find that the hanger had worn 80-90% through the bolt.  We've had a couple dozen stainless steel 5 peice pull from the wall over the last several years because people clipped a spinner and did nothing,  over the course of many people doing nothing and thanks to sideways falls and rope movement they eventually unscrew themselves to the pointing of completely unthreading the cone and popping out.  Tightening with a tiny wrench is good for the meantime but stainless 5 peice really ought to be tightened back to spec in these instances if you want a long term fix. 

DrRockso RRG wrote:

Doing nothing could be super bad advice.  Unless it's a plated 5 peice which has corroded and seized since the bolt has been loose you should tighten it. In one instance I removed a plated 5 peice with a spinning hanger to find that the hanger had worn 80-90% through the bolt.  We've had a couple dozen stainless steel 5 peice pull from the wall over the last several years because people clipped a spinner and did nothing,  over the course of many people doing nothing and thanks to sideways falls and rope movement they eventually unscrew themselves to the pointing of completely unthreading the cone and popping out.  Tightening with a tiny wrench is good for the meantime but stainless 5 peice really ought to be tightened back to spec in these instances if you want a long term fix. 

You may be right about that, in the rock you're working with. I've tried to tighten 5 piece "spinners" in granite and other hard rock and couldn't tighten them because they were already fully torqued, and yet, they're still spinners. So maybe the best advice is give it a try, but don't be surprised if it doesn't work. Part of why I hate 5 piece bolts and don't place them anymore. 

Erroneous Publicus wrote:

You may be right about that, in the rock you're working with. I've tried to tighten 5 piece "spinners" in granite and other hard rock and couldn't tighten them because they were already fully torqued, and yet, they're still spinners. So maybe the best advice is give it a try, but don't be surprised if it doesn't work. Part of why I hate 5 piece bolts and don't place them anymore. 

That's unfortunate,  sounds like bad installs from the get go,  perhaps from an undersized hole/worn drill bit.  Are you seeing this primarily with 3/8 or half inch bolts? I definitely prefer wedge bolts to the 3/8" sleeves.  

Erroneous Publicus wrote:

You may be right about that, in the rock you're working with. I've tried to tighten 5 piece "spinners" in granite and other hard rock and couldn't tighten them because they were already fully torqued, and yet, they're still spinners. So maybe the best advice is give it a try, but don't be surprised if it doesn't work. Part of why I hate 5 piece bolts and don't place them anymore. 

part of fixing that problem is understanding the mechanism behind a spinner 5-piece/sleeve bolt (not a spinning hanger).  essentially, the cone is frozen on the threads of the bolt, but does not engage/expand the sleeve.  the 'solution' is to pull the cone into the sleeve with enough force to engage the cone with the sleeve AND break the bond with the threads, at which point you can effectively tighten the bolt.  'solution' is in quotations because producing the above scenario (via pulling, funking, etc.) isn't always successful.  

To clarify, I didn't set the spinner 5-pieces I was referencing, just tried to tighten them without luck. May have been a "bad install" or just how they are. The route in question is relatively new, very popular and was put up by super experienced folks.  

My metolius nut tool has like 3 hex punchouts for different hex-nut sizes. I'm carrying a nut tool up most things anyway so it's a nice feature and no "extra" weight

old5ten wrote:

part of fixing that problem is understanding the mechanism behind a spinner 5-piece/sleeve bolt (not a spinning hanger).  essentially, the cone is frozen on the threads of the bolt, but does not engage/expand the sleeve.  the 'solution' is to pull the cone into the sleeve with enough force to engage the cone with the sleeve AND break the bond with the threads, at which point you can effectively tighten the bolt.  'solution' is in quotations because producing the above scenario (via pulling, funking, etc.) isn't always successful.  

I've had really good luck just hooking up a pas or quickdraw and putting as much force as possible straight out while tightening, an impact driver makes things easier. A small pry bar behind the hanger can help too. IME most people's problems come from the sleeve being too expanded or not expanded enough prior to hammering in. Cleaning the hole out well and ensuring the blue dust cap is intact, as well as making sure the cone is the right amount of engaged in the sleeve before hammering makes spinners very rare.  There's a bit of a learning curve with 5 peice for developers used to using wedges.