The Taz Lov + Revo Lead Rope Solo Thread

Brian Whelan wrote:

Ricky what is the additional attachment to your quickdraws that prevents the rope from back feeding?

They're a neat little invention by Matty Skinner which he calls the Gromm. He used to print and mail them to ya for a small fee but they got too popular and he can't keep up with the demand so now all you get is the digital file. 

Apparently they're tricky to 3D print so not a good first project, but it's apparently pretty easy to find companies and individuals that will do it for a reasonable fee. 

Here's the file: 

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/tool/gromm-hitch

I don't know what material they're printed out of as I know nothing about 3D printing, but whatever it is it's very stretchy and rubbery, not that normal plastic stuff that's usually printed. 

Brent Barghahn modified them and Matty thinks it's likely an improvement. I'm a little skeptical Brent's are better but I might try and print them and check them out-- I mean if Matty thinks they're an improvement that's saying a lot, eh? 

https://www.brentbarghahn.com/design-projects/rope-solo-accessories

Once you start using them there is a 0% chance you will go back to whatever method you were using before. 

Greg Gavin wrote:

Are you chest loops full strength? I appreciate this blog by Brent spelling out his method. I like that all of the chest linkage is low strength and can break in the event of a catastrophic fall reducing your risk of strangulation. https://www.brentbarghahn.com/climbing-blog/redpoint-rope-soloing-2021

Mine are custom made so the strength is unknown, but they're also made by Skot, which means they're probably pretty damn strong. That dude doesn't fuck around. 

I tried simulating strangling on the 55cm slings which caused some concern, but it seems impossible on the 50cm slings I've been using. They just cinch down on my armpits and don't get very near my neck. 

Using low strength cord or something like that does seem like one very valid solution, but simply using a big wall chest harness which has nothing to strangle you with or holding down your chest rig with a dog bone/sling also seems just as valid. 

Are you using the gromm on each rope side clip or just on select clips as you deem necessary per pitch?

Greg Gavin wrote:

Are you using the gromm on each rope side clip or just on select clips as you deem necessary per pitch?

You need to prevent backfeed every 60-80' or so. Most people only have two. I like to climb at an area that has 70m pitches so I got four. 

If you’re looking for something a little more commercial off the shelf I’ve been using hair ties recently with pretty good success.  I wrap them a few times around the carabiner and then extend a loop up above the gate. When you clip you just slide the extended piece down around the gate and it keeps the rope in place pretty well. You can also cinch up the line by pulling tight. Maybe not as slick/stiff as these 3D printed attachments but it will work on any carabiner and is an easy alternative. 

Phil Sakievich wrote:

If you’re looking for something a little more commercial off the shelf I’ve been using hair ties recently with pretty good success.  I wrap them a few times around the carabiner and then extend a loop up above the gate. When you clip you just slide the extended piece down around the gate and it keeps the rope in place pretty well. You can also cinch up the line by pulling tight. Maybe not as slick/stiff as these 3D printed attachments but it will work on any carabiner and is an easy alternative. 

Rad method, Phil! Thanks for the detailed photos and clear explanation! Seems like a great alternative if you can't be buggered to get Matty's thingy-ma-bobbers printed. 

Hi Ricky,

just read your post and find it very interesting, esp. compared to the setups I have tried so far. But because I'm slow, I'm gonna ask you a few questions if you don't mind, in the hope I'm not making you repeat yourself. 

Q1: Did you mod either device?

Q2: presumably, redundancy comes from the fact that if one device fails, the other catches, right? That's how you do away with the slip knots or stopper knots?

Q3: the sling linking your chest harness to your harness is to stop the former riding up in case of a fall, right, hence avoiding potential strangulation? Any other function?

Thanks in advance.

denis Lejeune wrote:

Hi Ricky,

just read your post and find it very interesting, esp. compared to the setups I have tried so far. But because I'm slow, I'm gonna ask you a few questions if you don't mind, in the hope I'm not making you repeat yourself. 

Q1: Did you mod either device?

Q2: presumably, redundancy comes from the fact that if one device fails, the other catches, right? That's how you do away with the slip knots or stopper knots?

Q3: the sling linking your chest harness to your harness is to stop the former riding up in case of a fall, right, hence avoiding potential strangulation? Any other function?

Thanks in advance.

1) I modded the Revo but would not do so again. I haven't had the best experiences with it, it sometimes locks when it shouldn't. 

2) correct. Realistically the Taz will always catch an upright fall, but there is redundancy even if somehow the Taz came completely out of the system. Now that I am accustomed to two device redundancy I really never want to go back to one device + knots. 

3) the primary purpose of the sling is so that in an inverted fall the Revo will pull on my harness and not transmit all the fall energy through my chest harness. 

This system does have its shortcomings but every time I play with a new system to consider moving to I find it has even more significant shortcomings that I dislike more, so I'm gonna keep on keepin on with this rig for the foreseeable future. 

What advantage does this have over an El Mudo? The taz love + revo is about the same price as an El Mudo plus chest rig. seems like a lot of faf for no advantages that i can spot.

Finn Lanvers wrote:

What advantage does this have over an El Mudo? The taz love + revo is about the same as an El Mudo plus chest rig. seems like a lot of faf for no advantages that i can spot.

There has been a distinct lack of hands-on comparisons of El Mudo vs. other devices, and hopefully someone who has experience with multiple setups including the Mudo will chime in here.  I've been very happy with my Mudo v2, with a good amount of mileage on it at this point, but would love to learn about how it stacks up in real-world use against Grigris, Revo, etc.

Finn Lanvers wrote:

What advantage does this have over an El Mudo? The taz love + revo is about the same as an El Mudo plus chest rig. seems like a lot of faf for no advantages that i can spot.

I think the systems are generally comparable, however they do have various pros and cons. 

You have a Taz Lov which is the best TRS device on the market by a significant margin. For El Mudo most people don't use it to follow their leads except for on very easy pitches, thus necessitating a separate TRS device. 

On traversing pitches you can use just the Revo; both the Taz and El Mudo don't traverse well. 

Having two devices allows for some slight shenanigans that can speed up things. For example if I'm at a good ledge or stance at the top of a pitch I clip the live rope into the anchor, remove the Taz (still safe because the Revo is in the system), set up the Taz for rappel, and then remove the Revo and rap on the Taz. 

The Taz provides the shortest catches of any device alongside other devices in its category (such as the soloist). 

Ultimately I like the psychological advantage of having two devices on me which people use for LRS. I get really scared sometimes climbing LRS, and having two devices is very comforting. Realistically is the Taz Lov or El Mudo ever going to fail to catch an upright fall? Provided you're using an adequate connection to the device that's an extremely improbable event. Nevertheless knowing that my Lov could explode and I'd still be completely safe is very comforting. It feels like you're getting belayed by two people at once. 

Ultimately I think going backup and trailing stopper knot free is a complete game changer and the most important thing if you're interested in rope soloing similar grades to partnered climbing. Brent Barghan's precache method is the only thing I think is comparable to a completely knotless system, but it isn't punter friendly as all that rope hanging down gets caught on fucking everything if you spend a lot of time on 5.9 and under. 

The El Mudo has the advantages that it's made for LRS and the configuration does not need to be changed to rappel after a lead. 

If you feel comfortable going completely knotless on El Mudo + Yomi then the advantages of my rig are minimal, but there are some. The biggest advantage is almost certainly if you like to TRS also, as the Lov is incredible for that. I am certainly interested in trying  out El Mudo as it seems more attractive to me than the GG+ system that most rope soloists seem to be going for which has far more problems that must be worked around mid lead. 

personally not a fan of el mudo. It’s a very picky device and I could never  dial it in. If and when I get back into doing LRS I’ll be using the Vergo with either a Revo or fuse. Essentially the same setup as the lov

Ricky Harline wrote:

1) I modded the Revo but would not do so again. I haven't had the best experiences with it, it sometimes locks when it shouldn't. 

2) correct. Realistically the Taz will always catch an upright fall, but there is redundancy even if somehow the Taz came completely out of the system. Now that I am accustomed to two device redundancy I really never want to go back to one device + knots. 

3) the primary purpose of the sling is so that in an inverted fall the Revo will pull on my harness and not transmit all the fall energy through my chest harness. 

This system does have its shortcomings but every time I play with a new system to consider moving to I find it has even more significant shortcomings that I dislike more, so I'm gonna keep on keepin on with this rig for the foreseeable future. 

Hi Ricky, thanks for that. 

My TRS lives on redundancy so I know what you mean. Have you actually tested whether the Revo would step up (in that exact setup) if the Lov were to call it a day? I guess you have, just checking. The Revo isn't cheap so I want to make sure it's the right device for me too. 

denis Lejeune wrote:

Hi Ricky, thanks for that. 

My TRS lives on redundancy so I know what you mean. Have you actually tested whether the Revo would step up (in that exact setup) if the Lov were to call it a day? I guess you have, just checking. The Revo isn't cheap so I want to make sure it's the right device for me too. 

I have not taken inverted falls but I built an inverted fall simulator out of a 2x4 and 50lbs of weights. The Lov doesn't seem to slow down the Revo at all in catching, which makes sense since the rope makes a completely straight path through the Taz Lov unlike say a Grigri.

Ricky Harline wrote:

I have not taken inverted falls but I built an inverted fall simulator out of a 2x4 and 50lbs of weights. The Lov doesn't seem to slow down the Revo at all in catching, which makes sense since the rope makes a completely straight path through the Taz Lov unlike say a Grigri.

Sweet, thanks again for the trouble.

Thanks for one helluva a post, and your thoughtful responses, Ricky! Clearly-written, thorough, with good visual aids. This is a welcome departure from the usual "if you want to understand what I'm saying, join the Facebook group" rope solo posts.

Ricky Harline wrote:

I have not taken inverted falls but I built an inverted fall simulator out of a 2x4 and 50lbs of weights. The Lov doesn't seem to slow down the Revo at all in catching, which makes sense since the rope makes a completely straight path through the Taz Lov unlike say a Grigri.

Doing my best impression of Columbo now: with all the slings and biners keeping the 2 devices upright, there seems to be very little chance of crossloading, right? Or is there more play than would appear?

denis Lejeune wrote:

Doing my best impression of Columbo now: with all the slings and biners keeping the 2 devices upright, there seems to be very little chance of crossloading, right? Or is there more play than would appear?

Crossloading isn’t a concern with the lov because it’s on a SS quicklink

the revo won’t cross load in inversion because it’s already oriented that way. The only concern would be some catastrophic failure of the taz lov where it became disconnected. I have never heard of this happening because its connection point is narrow which means it should never explode like the grigri is liable to do.

but even if the lov did explode, the revo also cross loading and exploding is so astronomically unlikely that I would call it a non-issue. It’s a good safe setup.

With the two devices inline with one another have you run into issues with them bumping into each other? I was working an overhung route a few weeks ago on a TRS and found it fiddly to keep my back up and main device separated. Basically when you hunch/bend your toros the devices get closer no?

Phil Sakievich wrote:

With the two devices inline with one another have you run into issues with them bumping into each other? I was working an overhung route a few weeks ago on a TRS and found it fiddly to keep my back up and main device separated. Basically when you hunch/bend your toros the devices get closer no?

Can’t speak for Ricky but I had a similar setup going with the Revo and fuse for a hot minute and definitely had this issue. It’s part of the reason I switched to a side or back  mounted fuse rather than a chest mounted revo