El Potero Chico and Rockfall

Soiled 800-fill Down Boxers wrote:

I don't know what is going on with your double posts and your muffed quotes but it doesn't matter.

Whether "intentional" or not, it simply does not matter. You cannot clean new routes on choss with people below. It's not ice climbing.  

Yes, rocks do break off on established routes and this is a hazard.  It is compounded by 1000x when someone is on virgin choss mining a route.  So yeah, you can't do it. It isn't an assumption of the risk situation, you have crossed way over the line into gross negligence.  

Remember: "Stay safe and try to be kind to your fellow climbers."

Oh I see - so if someone refuses your demand to make way, you tell them you might accidentally kill them?  Sorry, you don't get to do that.  

And a developer can guarantee your safety - by ceasing any cleaning activity.  You swinging on choss and bolting a new route does not take precedence over other people's safety, sorry. Developers do not get special rights to endanger others, no matter how special you want to tell yourself you are because you are A Developer. 

I would ask who is the narcissistic asshole here - the person on the ground, at an established crag who wants to climb, or the person who thinks they have a right to endanger them, because they are already up on a rope. 

Another edit - JD I am not Luke nor do I know him.  I do not want my opinions attached to him.  I admit I am shocked about how callous many here seem to be about an easily preventable hazard.  JD, I found your approach particularly pathetic.  "The whole Potrero?" Ok big man.  

I would repeat what I said at first - this situation does not come up often, because people know you can't do it. You can't close a crag because you want to or were there first, you can't scrub choss above other people, and if your callous disregard for the safety of others results in injury, it is your fault. You had the power to stop it. 

The climber on the ground is... he does nothing but TAKE from the crag, and he expects someone who's already up on a rope to stop what they're doing(aside from the fact that they were there first), so they can then enjoy their selfish playtime. The developer GIVES his time and money to the crag and community. 

If I see a developer at a crag, Im usually going to say Hi!,..thank them for their services, maybe give them some cash for bolts/hangars, or a beer/water/j, and move on to another spot.

If I showed up to a multi pitch climb and there was a party already on the route, I'd most likely move on as well, just for the simple fact of not wanting to be under someone who could potentially drop a rock or gear on me.

Can somebody sum this up please?

Sep M wrote:

It his is a thread where someone with a poop themed username is taking your trolling crown from you.

All suitors cum and go. 

And the poop reference name is awesome work by the newly crowned king of trolls!!!     Long live..."Soiled 800-fill Down Boxers !!"...defender of the gumbies climbing under others!!

If someone showed up at the bottom of a crag I was developing a route on, OBVIOUSLY I would immediately stop. The consequences are just too high for my intended result.

Anything else is pure ego/hubris. It takes two to play the blame game. You see it happening a lot with children.

I watched the first 30 seconds of the instagram rants (part 1-4). The rock-tosser does sound like a dick. But you have to understand posting those vidoes crying about route development makes you look like a BABY. Either say his name like you mean business or go approach him in person. Anything else comes off really cringe. 

Given more context, I feel like I'm seeing seeing two sides of this argument, and should relent somewhat. Speaking hypothetically: Asking someone to stop cleaning so that I can climb something in the fall line (when I have hundreds of other options nearby) would reflect a profound sense of entitlement. Insisting on climbing right there after developer refused to relent would either reflect severe cognitive impairment or a death wish and complete disregard for my belayer. Continuing to clean a route while someone who's clearly struggling is in my fall-line would be reckless at best.

As far as rules are concerned, I'm not as sure as some. Any gringo who's taken the drive from Monterrey to Hidalgo should understand that there is no universal "right of way" concept.

Maybe that first trundle is just a warning rock?

It is certainly bad form to trundle with people in the fall line, even if said people should have taken their show to a different climb. An accident would probably be ruled the developer’s fault. But you can be right and still be dead, I’d opt not to get under an actively developed route.

Hm.....

A pedestrian walks onto a busy highway, almost gets hit by a car, complains driver almost killed him.

A person walks onto an active shooting range, almost gets shot, complains marksman almost killed him.

A climber decides to climb under an rockfall zone, almost gets hit by rockfall, complains rockfall almost killed him.  

Obviously these are all slightly different issues than the one outlined above, but... use your brains people. And miss me with the 30 line long response about how these are all slightly different than this situation - nobody's gonna read your response anyways. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ron Burgundy wrote:

And the poop reference name is awesome work by the newly crowned king of trolls!!!     Long live..."Soiled 800-fill Down Boxers !!"...defender of the gumbies climbing under others!!

I dunno Artem is doing excellent work here, albeit unintentional.

Both parties involved in this behaved like spoiled children.  

(Mmch..mm..hmchh    Writing with mouth full of popcorn) 

But seriously a thought occurred to me just how, in this case specifically, or developers in general, mark out or warn the base area of trundling from above ?   Do you place orange cones and tape it off with a sign or just hope to see and yell/communicate beforehand with anyone who unknowingly wanders into the area of operations?

What’s std protocol to guard the impact zone before launching death blocks from above?

Mark Pilate wrote:

(Mmch..mm..hmchh    Writing with mouth full of popcorn) 

But seriously a thought occurred to me just how, in this case specifically, or developers in general, mark out or warn the base area of trundling from above ?   Do you place orange cones and tape it off with a sign or just hope to see and yell/communicate beforehand with anyone who unknowingly wanders into the area of operations?

What’s std protocol to guard the impact zone before launching death blocks from above?

Pass the butter . . . 

I've typically worked with a partner at popular areas.  One on the ground to warn people off.  If no second person is available then we don't do it. 

Artem Vee wrote:

In terms if my particular developing habits - I’m either a vampire and develop at night for popular spots, or I choose obscure spots - I hate people because of situations like this, so I go out of my way to be unseen. I’ll stay away from you and you stay away from me. People are really talented at doing remarkably retarded shit and I am talented at taking away their opportunities to do so. 

This is the correct approach, because it avoids all the issues that have come up in this fun thread.  Most climbers' tender enviro sensibilities cannot handle the truth of what goes on when you're mining a route from the choss anyway.  Most people with a drill understand this.  Some do not.  Bolting/cleaning a route at a popular wall, in season, at an established crag is goofball behavior.  Either do it at dawn or dusk or wait for the offseason.  

Soiled 800-fill Down Boxers wrote:

This is the correct approach, because it avoids all the issues that have come up in this fun thread.  Most climbers' tender enviro sensibilities cannot handle the truth of what goes on when you're mining a route from the choss anyway.  Most people with a drill understand this.  Some do not.  Bolting/cleaning a route at a popular wall, in season, at an established crag is goofball behavior.  Either do it at dawn or dusk or wait for the offseason.  

Hmm. Has offseason not started in EPC?

Chad Miller wrote:

Pass the butter . . . 

I've typically worked with a partner at popular areas.  One on the ground to warn people off.  If no second person is available then we don't do it. 

My son & I were at EPC last year, wanted to do a route at cat wall & saw a rope dangling nearby. The developer's partner appeared warning us that they were cleaning up some loose rock. Since we were both just boys wanting to watch big rocks turn into little rocks, we hung around & helped warn/turn people away from the rock fall zone. Amazingly, everyone was receptive, didn't insist on climbing there since there are literally hundreds of other climbs in the canyon. No drama, no social media posts, no hurt feelings. Go figure...

Soiled 800-fill Down Boxers wrote:

 Either do it at dawn or dusk or wait for the offseason.  

late March IS off-season in Potrero.

If climber see chance for rock to crunch climber, climber no climb there. If route developer see climber under rock crunch zone, route developer no drop rock.

Pass the popcorn it’s been rainy here

What I really think people should do is go on over to the climbing memes thread and read the last few pages.... all your answers will be there.... I found the thread after 2 years off and..... you get the point.....just go read and enjoy the amazing information.

Did somebody say memes thread?!