It’s October, thinking about my ski setup.

The combo of your height/weight, skiing ability, boot stiffness, and ski/binding stiffness isn't quite matching up either. 

Boots seem too stiff for your weight and ability, and also too stiff for the BD ski in 168cm with tech bindings. Cochise 120 would match better with something like Rustler 10 or 11 with Kingpins or Duke/Baron bindings, for expert skier in the 140-170lbs range, (in my opinion)

I have to agree with the park skis. I use them for almost everything they’re great in tight woods,  they’re designed to ski on firm snow, as long as you don’t ride them on the rails, too much and trash the edges which I do. They have enough rocker  to float in pow unless it’s bottomless.  And they spin like a top. So playfull. Very durable. Some of them are also light, so good for touring

It’s now March a year later.

I hate my boots so much. Every time I buckle into them they piss me off. Every time I drive past the shop that sold them to me, I get mad. I believe that they sold me the boots they had, not the boots I needed.

My arches just hurt. All the time. My calves kill me. It takes everything I’ve got to put them on and even more to take them off. There isn’t a feature on these boots I like. 

An independent boot fitter (not with the shop I purchased from) thinks they’re too large for me. I’m not sure about that. I measure 25.5 on the foot-o-meter and these are 26.5. He added a thin insole under the insoles to take up more room. They’re tight and cut off the circulation. My feet are freezing in pretty average temps. I think I’d lose toes if I bought the boots he thinks I need. They’re tiny.

So that sucks. I’ve got some sensitive and jacked up feet and I pretty much don’t trust any shop advice right now. And I really didn’t want to spend more cash on new boots so shortly after getting new ones.

On to the ski’s. I definitely need a new pair of alpine skis. Something stiffer and more able to blast through the crud. The thing I’m finding odd is sizing. Every calculator I’ve used says I need 170-175. 5’9”, 145lbs, Intermediate/advanced, all mountain. I can’t hardly find men’s skis that size, everything is in the 180’s-190’s. I’m not that tiny am I? Is the industry geared toward bigger people or little women?

If your foot measures 25.5 and the boots are 26.5, then the boots are almost certainly too big. Adding a thin insole might take up some volume, but won't give you a comfortable fit, because your feet won't be positioned properly in the boot. The right sized boot will frequently feel too small at first, but give your feet a chance to settle into the boot before you decide. 

mark felber wrote:

If your foot measures 25.5 and the boots are 26.5, then the boots are almost certainly too big. Adding a thin insole might take up some volume, but won't give you a comfortable fit, because your feet won't be positioned properly in the boot. The right sized boot will frequently feel too small at first, but give your feet a chance to settle into the boot before you decide. 

I figure that they’ll pack out a little bit. Still seems really really small. My right foot especially, due to surgery and a little frost nip years ago, gets cold a lot faster. I am genuinely concerned that I’ll get frostbite in tight boots. Blood circulation is a good thing.

I’ll likely put my boots on sale at barnsale price at the end of the season. They’re awful. I don’t know what I’ll do for next season yet.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:
On to the ski’s. I definitely need a new pair of alpine skis. Something stiffer and more able to blast through the crud. The thing I’m finding odd is sizing. Every calculator I’ve used says I need 170-175. 5’9”, 145lbs, Intermediate/advanced, all mountain. I can’t hardly find men’s skis that size, everything is in the 180’s-190’s. I’m not that tiny am I? Is the industry geared toward bigger people or little women?

I just checked Evo for all mountain Men's skis on sale, and a bunch of them have models in the 170-180 range.  

Btw that's the size range I use, and I'm 40 lbs heavier and consider myself advanced but not expert.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:

It’s now March a year later.

I hate my boots so much. 

howdy! I see you’re in Colorado…if Larrys Bootfitting in Boulder wasn’t the outfit that you went to originally I would highly recommend. Try to make a mid day appointment (I was there at 4pm for my new boots this year and it was nuts…but maybe they’re slower this time of year). I went from horrible pain and blisters on my last pair of boots to boots I wore for 10+ years. Just upgraded this year at Larrys. 

The real benefit of a good boot fitter is their knowledge of last shape. My 29 scarpa T2ecos are sneaker comfy, but an F1 in 29 is pure torture. Went to a reputable shop, got blacklight pros in 28 and they’re good for multi day ski mountaineering trips wearing them 12+ hour a day. What I suspect happened is that you have a wide foot, so they put you in a boot that’s too long to try and get a little more width. You leading with “my arches just hurt” really makes me think you’re in much too narrow of a boot. Hopefully you can find someone you can trust. 

Easy Cheese wrote:

howdy! I see you’re in Colorado…if Larrys Bootfitting in Boulder wasn’t the outfit that you went to originally I would highly recommend. Try to make a mid day appointment (I was there at 4pm for my new boots this year and it was nuts…but maybe they’re slower this time of year). I went from horrible pain and blisters on my last pair of boots to boots I wore for 10+ years. Just upgraded this year at Larrys. 

Larry's is...not what it used to be.

OP, go to Boot Mechanics in Golden. Got a new pair of alpine boots this year and they have been *chef's kiss*. Dylan knows his stuff. Whether you bring your existing boots, buy something from them, or just get a recommendation (their touring selection is limited I think) and bring them back to get fitted, I can't recommend them highly enough. 

I'm late to this party, but I'll add some thoughts. 

Your feet should not be in pain.  No matter what people say about the right method, or the right fit, if your feet hurt, something is wrong, and you are not going to be happy.   

I sort of think you need to start from square one.

Shell fit.  Take out the liner and any additional spacers, but leave the hard plastic boot board in the bottom of the boot.  Put your foot with a thin sock into the boot.  If you push your foot forward until your toes lightly touch, how much space do you have between your heel and the back of the boot? About one finger? (Getting toward a tighter fit)  About 2 finges? (Probably a nice middle ground).  Anything much more or less or you are in the wrong shell size. 

Insoles.  Do you wear insoles in everyday life?  If so, you will probably need some in your ski boots.  Yes, insoles for ski boots are desigtned differently than insolves for walking/running, but if you have a pair of insoles that are confortable, start with those.  Or just try a pair of superfeet or similar, nothing crazy, honestly, whatever feels comfortable and supportive.  Remove all the other insoles and spacers from your liners.  Place your insoles in the liners.  Now put the boots on.  Buckle them down for skiing.  Where do the boots hurt?  Where are your feet painfull?  This will give you information for the next step.

Molding.  Did you have the boot shells and/or liners molded?  It's not always best to go the molding route, but if your feet are in pain, it could help enormously.  Start with the liners.  Make sure your bootfitter molds them with your insoles in, and uses toecaps, spacing pads, and so on.  If that does not alleviate the pain, get your bootfitter to work on some hotspots, such as widenening the toe box, opening up the insteop area, and so on.  

Now, if you do all that, and your boots are still painfull, your boots just might not match your feet.  Have your gone to a shop and tried on a range of boot models in different sizes?  

Last, what kind of skiing do you want to do, or what kind of skiing do you do most?   Mostly piste?  Mostly touring?  Hard snow?  Soft snow?  Do you want to carve groomers, or crush powder, or accumulate milage uphill and deal with funky wild snow on the way back down?  All of the above? 

Enlighten us.  That will help guide you toward the right set up.  

It takes a while to get it all right. 

But to return to the first point, pain is not good. It should not hurt. Skiing should be fun :)

So I’ve relocated to the PNW and haven’t updated my profile. 

For insoles, I’ve got a pair in my boots that supposedly fit great. I do not wear insoles in my regular shoes.

For skiing style, at this point in my life, it’s going to be side country tours or resort skiing. I would like to get out for bigger trips but life isn’t allowing that. I’m willing to accept a heavier boot on the seldom trips if it was comfortable.

I try to ski powder and trees. It’s not always available. The local hill tends to range from great powder to chunk to ice, all of which typically occur every week. I would actually like to do more uphill than I have this year, I’ve been trying to maximize my time heading down in an attempt to improve. I’m basically capable on most terrain though hardly graceful. I think I’m getting better.

My liners have been heat molded. I’ve never had the shells adjusted. I don’t like these boots well enough to spend much more money or time on them. If there was a relatively simple fix, I’d do it. If it was an engineering adventure to get them to work, I’d rather toss them and find something better for my foot.

It sounds like you need to toss the old boots. You should be able to find a pair of boots that fit your feet pretty well out of the box. Then only minor mods if any should need to be made. A boot shop that does 3D scanning of your feet is the best. They'll be able to tell what brands/models will likely fit your shape feet before you even try them on. The only thing is they may not have all brands/models so you may need to try a couple shops to try enough brands before committing. A boot should fit like a good handshake. Not too tight, just a slight comfortable squeeze without extra room, and no pain at all. You should be able to find all day comfort and great performance for powder skiing. You can't demo boots, but you can tell pretty much what feels right in the shop. Like I said I found a great pair of boots for $280 but it took trying on about 20 pairs, then ordering the right flex online. I'm over 200 pounds and an aggressive expert skier and a moderate flex is great for me because I want the best performance in powder and they still fine for hard pack carving turns.

For skis at least you can demo to see what works. But I think the 170-175 size is right. Get some Moment Deathwish in a 174 for a one ski quiver. They're kind of wide/heavy for hardpack but a wide ski works better on hard pack than a skinny ski works in powder.

Glowering wrote:

It sounds like you need to toss the old boots. You should be able to find a pair of boots that fit your feet pretty well out of the box. Then only minor mods if any should need to be made. A boot shop that does 3D scanning of your feet is the best. They'll be able to tell what brands/models will likely fit your shape feet before you even try them on. The only thing is they may not have all brands/models so you may need to try a couple shops to try enough brands before committing. A boot should fit like a good handshake. Not too tight, just a slight comfortable squeeze without extra room, and no pain at all. You should be able to find all day comfort and great performance for powder skiing. You can't demo boots, but you can tell pretty much what feels right in the shop. Like I said I found a great pair of boots for $280 but it took trying on about 20 pairs, then ordering the right flex online. I'm over 200 pounds and an aggressive expert skier and a moderate flex is great for me because I want the best performance in powder and they still fine for hard pack carving turns.

For skis at least you can demo to see what works. But I think the 170-175 size is right. Get some Moment Deathwish in a 174 for a one ski quiver. They're kind of wide/heavy for hardpack but a wide ski works better on hard pack than a skinny ski works in powder.

You’re thinking along the same lines that I am. The local shops don’t have a big selection but the local used shops have mountains of boots. Maybe that would help point me in the right direction even if I don’t buy from them.

I heard that Scott has a really wide foot and the ones I tried on were pretty comfy, that all sounds great but I’ve heard they fall apart pretty quickly.

For skis, they do make a 104 Deathwish though. Could be a good idea. I don’t need the best sticks on the hill, just something that’s a little bit more bread and butter than what I currently have.

Some things to try before deciding that the boots are the problem:

* lace up the liners

* use ultralight socks

* buckle them extremely loosely for the uphill.   IMO, if you can't close the buckle easily with one finger it is probably too tight.

* get enough potassium in your diet

Chris Johnson wrote:

Larry's is...not what it used to be.

OP, go to Boot Mechanics in Golden. Got a new pair of alpine boots this year and they have been *chef's kiss*. Dylan knows his stuff. Whether you bring your existing boots, buy something from them, or just get a recommendation (their touring selection is limited I think) and bring them back to get fitted, I can't recommend them highly enough. 

I still like Larrys. Lots of institutional knowledge, good policies towards finding the right boot fit in a ski season (unlimited tweaks in your first season in a pair of boots, 30 day no q asked return policy). 

mbk wrote:

Some things to try before deciding that the boots are the problem:

* lace up the liners

* use ultralight socks

* buckle them extremely loosely for the uphill.   IMO, if you can't close the buckle easily with one finger it is probably too tight.

* get enough potassium in your diet

It seems like the issue is that they’re too big and also don’t fit my foot. They’re completely comfortable uphill. I do unbuckle them but they don’t hurt at all on the way up. They don’t hurt walking or bootpacking. They don’t hurt when I’m skiing with my kids on the bunny slope.

Going down with and effort just kills me. Cramped arches, calves sore for days mainly.

What makes me nervous about another pair is that these are comfortable. Unless I ski in them. How would I possibly determine in a store whether this would happen with another pair?

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:

What makes me nervous about another pair is that these are comfortable. Unless I ski in them. How would I possibly determine in a store whether this would happen with another pair?

Go to a reputable bootfitter and talk to them about the issues you're having. Follow their recommendations for boots, footbeds, etc. 

Start here: blisterreview.com/blister-s…

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:

The local shops don’t have a big selection but the local used shops have mountains of boots. Maybe that would help point me in the right direction even if I don’t buy from them.

It would be a good idea to try on used boots to see what brands/models fit your foot, but unless used boots are basically new I wouldn't buy them. Someone else's foot has compressed the liner to fit their foot, so you could have extra space where it not needed on your foot. 

 IMO, if you can't close the buckle easily with one finger it is probably too tight.

I agree with the one finger buckling. If the buckle is so loose it's not engaging and just flopping around it's too loose (and often comes undone) and if you NEED to set it like that your boot is too small at that part of your foot. If you close it with one finger and it's just right; it's just closing the boot around your foot. If you need to push hard to close the buckle the boot is too big at that part of your foot, you are distorting the shell the make it fit your foot and causing pressure points.

 It seems like the issue is that they’re too big and also don’t fit my foot.

Yeah that sounds likely. See above about one finger buckling. If they're too big you may be cranking down the buckles to hold your foot in place which causes pressure points. And if your foot can move around in the boot it will cause problems too because your foot/calve will slam against the boot repeatedly. They should fit where you do one finger buckling then there's no extra space around your foot, but not too tight anywhere either. 

Some people worry about being able to lift their heels, but that's the only extra space I have in my boots. I can lift my heel about 1/4-1/2 inch if I try. But if you're skiing with good technique that shouldn't matter. You should be skiing on flat feet, balanced front to back, with your upper body not leaning forward or backward. A great drill is to ski with your boots completely unbuckled. If you ski with good technique it shouldn't be a problem to ski like that on a groomed run at moderate speed. You'll quickly learn if you're leaning to far forward or much more likely too far back. When you unweight and come up between turns you should be shifting your weight slightly forward then coming down with your weight towards the ball of your foot, then your weight naturally shifts towards your heel at the end of the turn, then coming up and repeating. With your boots unbuckled you shift your weight slightly, and realize you need to shift your weight like that with every turn or you end up in the back seat. When your boots are buckled and you're skiing faster you'll shift your weight more aggressively. When you're coming down with your weight to the front for an aggressive hard pack racing turn you are really driving your shin into the tongue of the boot (the tongue needs to fit good, so drive your shin into it when trying on boots). Your upper body remains straight up and you are overall balanced front to back, it's your ankles, knees, and hips that are flexing to allow your shins to drive forward, kind of like you are squatting. When trying on boots you should buckle them up and flex the boots by driving your shins into the tongue, until the boots 'bottom out' where they won't flex anymore, that will give you the best idea of how they will feel when you ski in them. It will also give you an idea of the flex of the boot. You should be able to bottom them out. If you can't they may be too stiff for you. If it's really easy to bottom them out they may be not stiff enough.

 Find a good boot fitter, but ultimately it's up to you to figure out what works. Which I suppose is why you started this thread, which is smart.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:

I heard that Scott has a really wide foot and the ones I tried on were pretty comfy, that all sounds great but I’ve heard they fall apart pretty quickly.

The last boots I tried on after a bunch of other brands when shopping were Rossignols because I knew they were the same as Langes and Langes used to all be narrow. But I put my foot in a Rossignol and it fit like a glove. I have a D (average) width foot by measurement but they seem wider, but I need a wide toe box. Some people say your toes should just touch the front of the boot when you stand up straight and come off when you flex. But I like it where my toes never touch the front. Because when I land a big air I don't want my toes slamming into the front. So try on everything, you never know.

My wife bought a different model Lange that's narrow for her narrow feet. They fit her great except the top outside of the boot (on the side of her leg, where it exits the boot) wasn't tall/padded enough and after a while was irritating her leg. We went to a boot fitter and they swapped out her liner for one from another brand boot (they had taken them out unused from someone's boot who got customer liners) and we only paid $20 or $40 cash. Now they are great for her. They scanned her foot first thing and said, yeah that boot should fit your foot, it just needed something different in one spot.

I’m actually feeling encouraged.

I decided that the extra insole was too thick, especially at the toe, so I trimmed it at the front of the foot and skied powder all day yesterday. I still got cramps in the arches but with a quick unbuckle I could very nearly recover on the lift. Still a lot of pain but my feet didn’t freeze and it was really fun conditions.

Today we had a plan to hit our local baby backcountry hill. Probably something like 3000’ vert for the day and a couple laps down a most excellent bowl. Before I started I thought that maybe the insoles just blow. So I pulled them all out and replaced them with this https://vktry.com/products/vktry-insoles-silver

They’ve been kicking around in various kicks of mine for a few years, nothing special but I’ve always kept them. I’ve always found them to be comfortable. They have a volume greater than my single insole but less than the double.

I didn’t get a single cramp today! In that deep powder, I don’t know if I pushed hard enough for heel lift. It’s hard to say because backcountry is overall a lot less skiing than the resort but it’s the best my feet have felt in a while.

I’m truly hoping that the root of my problems was just an insole that’s totally shit. I’ll get a few more big days on them, but for the first time this year, it seems like something is working.

Edit to add. The boots are likely a touch too large. The shop that sold them to me probably erred on the side of comfort over performance or a perfect fit. I don’t know why it took me two seasons to suspect that the insoles suck.

I am taking the little one up today (day 3 since Tuesday!!). That’ll be more of an exercise in eating fries than actually skiing though.