Backcountry Skiing -Southern California

Went up mt baldy today on the skin track from the ski hut and skied a couloir today and the bowl.  Snow was great around 1pm but then a marine layer (or something very foggy) came in and there was near zero visibility and the snow started getting pretty crusty.  Definitely was pretty unconsolidated because without skis post holing was up the hips.  I heard the storm came in right side up.

http://www.socalsnow.org/

I hope people are not going out there blind and ignorant of avalanche safety and protocol.

These guys at the above link are looking for snowpack details if you have anything more than unconsolidated and right side up.  CT, ECT, more details on layering, depth of layers, total snow depth, etc.  

I'm not familiar with Baldy's snowpack, so I can't even speculate on how scary it might be, but there have already been several fatalities this year in CA and CO due to avalaches (even inbounds). It's no joke and I've personally turned around sheepishly after digging a pit and not liking what I found up at Baldy.

Thanks and ski safe,

Dave

Ah okay well I'll just defer to socal snow with their 3rd day of the storm update and not post beta.  Stay safe!

Gregory Miles wrote:

Ah okay well I'll just defer to socal snow with their 3rd day of the storm update and not post beta.  Stay safe!

Your pictures look really cool! I bet the powder was epic! But I’m too much a coward to get caught in another slide… I’m cowardly old   

Hey Greg - I think you're my neighbor. LOL :)

Heading up on monday to ski Baldy .. will report back on conditions . 

I actually made my decision to go based on 1) a pretty detailed southern aspect snow pit from a different part of the San Gabriels 2)  there was no base prior to this so no previous layers and 3) didn't see any instability on the way up to the summit and had a plan b in case I did.  There was recent avalanche sign up to the ski hut on the ski hut trail but no avalanche signs from ski hut to summit.  You need differences in snowpack layer strenght to have an avalanche where you have a denser layer on top. The main thing I was worried about was wind slabs but the winds during the main parts of the storm were northerly.  Quite a bit of sastrugi on the way up to the summit past the initial couloirs, which means that's the windward side.

It was getting quite warmer then started cooling down and the snow was getting quite choppy.  I was planning on digging a pit but was frankly quite exhausted from the first socal tour of the season (my first tour of the season being actually in Alaska a couple weeks ago).

The maritime snowpack of California rarely has much comparison to the snowpack of Colorado.  You can dig pits all day long but it doesn't mean it's safe.  Modern avalanche safety focuses more on group dynamics than snow pits because that's what leads to people getting caught in avalanches more often even with people with decades of experience.  Also terrain choices are emphasized.

Hey Jeff!  We should get out sometime!

Great reply Gregory... I read this the other night & also was stoked on your beta photos.

Two friends of mine skied it on Wed, & thurs- even more socked in, and more blower it seemed (judging by their photos)- and it was stable then. They also had skied N face of Jepson a few days before that- and it looked VERY good, before the storm. 

I've been in & out of SoCal's backcountry on skis since 2014? ish, and find it super rare to find dangerous avalanche conditions- usually when it is dangerous, it's wetslides, and too hot to be that fun to ski anyway. Chasing new snow- I have never encountered much avy risk in SoCal. Everyone has their own safety evaluation styles, & level of acceptable risk. I've also skied extensively in the Sierra, some in Alaska (heli & touring), and a bit in CO. Snowpack Evaluation is def a more serious situation in those places, though southern-sierra and socal is fairly similar IMHO.  I also ski alone at times, which for some people is a no-go.

to Dave, i think people who are going out at this point have beacon / shovel / probe, and some education- 

For those following this thread, friends who went out today to Gorgonio said it was all-time conditions ! I'm hoping to get out mon/tues/ or wed. Was traveling for a bit. Stoking the hype here but everyone be safe, & share some photos here if you can : )  

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I was on pro patrol at Baldy ski area for at least 10 years back in the early 80’s to 90’s.   Conditions up there change in minutes.   I’ve been skiing blower powder one run then the next run a cloud may roll in and the snow sucks up all that moisture and turns it to mash potatoes.   I’ve also seen massive slides in bounds and out.  I’ve seen a crown five feet high stretch across the top of South Bowl for hundreds of yards and leave 60’ of deposition in the canyon below.  
Slides happen in So Cal, big slides.  Be careful and don’t let your guard down.  

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

I was on pro patrol at Baldy ski area for at least 10 years back in the early 80’s to 90’s.   Conditions up there change in minutes.   I’ve been skiing blower powder one run then the next run a cloud may roll in and the snow sucks up all that moisture and turns it to mash potatoes.   I’ve also seen massive slides in bounds and out.  I’ve seen a crown five feet high stretch across the top of South Bowl for hundreds of yards and leave 60’ of deposition in the canyon below.  
Slides happen in So Cal, big slides.  Be careful and don’t let your guard down.  

Do you happen to know if someone found the body yet?

I don’t know the experience level of people following the thread but I would NOT rely on SocalSnow.org for an adequate resource unless you are beginning your avalanche education. I applaud Allen for his effort but it’s mostly one person and the Traverse Ranges hold such complex terrain in a warm climate where a slight change in aspect and elevation can dramatically impact the snowpack.  And like @Kevin Mokracek highlighted, it’s windy AF.  I rely on my own observations, snowpack stability tests, reliable touring partners, and I try to get beta from a small network of partners with similar levels of risk and knowledge as myself. Essentially you are touring in an area with no avalanche forecasting center with a climate unique to other parts of California. So I agree, never let your guard down. Slide for life conditions are more common and underestimated than slides in my opinion.

Well maritime climate definitely doesn't mean slides don't happen and I hope people dont interpret my post to to think I meant that.  One of the past owners of mt waterman died in an avalanche at mt waterman ski area.  There probably are not good statistics for how many people get caught in slides in socal.  I mean people can look up the statistics themselves for avalanche deaths compared to say slide for life.  People might say there are less backcountry skiers and thats why there are less deaths in California but between hikers and mountaineers that make up some percentage of the over 10 million people in the LA area alone there are quite a few people who venture into avalanche terrain.  I would be curious about more data driven analysis into actual avalanche risks in socal.

As a side note I find it interesting that the American alpine club has their yearly accident report book but it doesn't appear to have the mt. Baldy slide for life accidents as an example.  Why these get omitted definitely leads to some possible reporting based selection bias in accident statistics.  Do they consider those people not "real" outdoors sports people?  Or is it volunteer reporting only?  So there is that also.

Gregory Miles wrote:

Well maritime climate definitely doesn't mean slides don't happen and I hope people dont interpret my post to to think I meant that.  One of the past owners of mt waterman died in an avalanche at mt waterman ski area.  There probably are not good statistics for how many people get caught in slides in socal.  I mean people can look up the statistics themselves for avalanche deaths compared to say slide for life.  People might say there are less backcountry skiers and thats why there are less deaths in California but between hikers and mountaineers that make up some percentage of the over 10 million people in the LA area alone there are quite a few people who venture into avalanche terrain.  I would be curious about more data driven analysis into actual avalanche risks in socal.

As a side note I find it interesting that the American alpine club has their yearly accident report book but it doesn't appear to have the mt. Baldy slide for life accidents as an example.  Why these get omitted definitely leads to some possible reporting based selection bias in accident statistics.  Do they consider those people not "real" outdoors sports people?  Or is it volunteer reporting only?  So there is that also.

In the 10 or more years I patrolled at Baldy I can recall at least 3 deaths due to avalanches in bounds in South Bowl.   One guy we didn’t find till the spring when the deposition pile finally melted.   Those three that died had ducked under the rope to get fresh tracks in an area that hadn’t been controlled yet.   There were several instances during those years where myself or other patrollers went for short rides while ski cutting, especially in the South Bowl area.  
the same thing that makes Baldy so dangerous also makes the most fun. I can remember hiking up the Backbone on a “lunch break” and skiing one of those chutes all the way down into the parking lot. You had to jump on those early after a storm because of their southern aspect they would slide and sometimes be stripped clean by the afternoon after the sun hit it.
The San Gabriel’s are one of the more underrated ski ranges imo. So much good skiing, when they finally do get some snow.

Hiking up the Backbone during a “lunch break” while patrolling at Baldy.  
We dropped down one of the chutes on the left side of the picture and skied it to the parking lot.

Li Hu wrote:

Do you happen to know if someone found the body yet?

https://abc7.com/mount-baldy-missing-hiker-lifei-huang-death-investigation/14412301/

Poor young thing... Seems like we get about 1 (not very experienced or prepared) hiker fatality a year up there. 

phylp phylp wrote:

https://abc7.com/mount-baldy-missing-hiker-lifei-huang-death-investigation/14412301/

Poor young thing... Seems like we get about 1 (not very experienced or prepared) hiker fatality a year up there. 

At least… Mt. Baldy deserves respect in winter conditions.

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

Hiking up the Backbone during a “lunch break” while patrolling at Baldy.  
We dropped down one of the chutes on the left side of the picture and skied it to the parking lot.

You're sure that's not the final section after the Hillary Step?

 i slept at the trail head and left the car at 0500 and got to the hut at 730.. slow…. then i climbed  the right side of the bowl summiting around 11:30/12pm  … and descended the same route. Snow was good 1/3 of the way from the summit to the hut and the lower 2/3 were cooked getting progressively sloppy  as we descended .   

There appeared to be a consolidated top slab (2’) over several feet of unconsolidated below… However there were no crowns visible on any southern  aspects , to include the bowl, but the northern aspect of the devils backbone has some huge fractures …see photo below. If you zoom in you will be able to see the huge failures… 

Another pic of the wind slab that fractured w red highlights . 

Edited as my original question got answered in the facebook group. Looking for partner(s) for San Gorgonio next Sunday 2/25. Conditions permitting I'd like to try for Little Charleton trees and Alto Diablo on the way out. Message me if interested!