"I can't use a grigri" is a massive red flag?

apogee wrote:

Dogmatic responses to anything is usually a red flag.

Except the importance of morning coffee.

thread full of gumbies

Eric Marx wrote:

atc guide for top belaying gri gri for lead belaying any other configuration means you never graduated gumbyhood idc how strong or accomplished you are

Pulling rope through an ATC guide sucks, to be avoided in the vast majority of circumstances IMO.

I'm just here to talk about how I know what to do next with my climbing. Is that not what we're talking about? This is urgent guys, it's nearly the weekend and I don't know what to do! 

But yeah people are way too dogmatic about this stuff.

Just use some sort of locking device of your choice for both lead and tr belays. I like the grigri for both, but some people like atc guide or revo or pilot or smart or the juul. 

As long as it's locking and you give me a good belay I don't give a shit. 

If you are too much of an idiot to figure out anything other than a tube... I probably won't be trying hard with you as a belay.

Just back on this thread after a gym session. Belaying with my ATC, I only dropped 1/2 of those I was climbing with. Most survived though, so a good day. No worries.

Eric Marx wrote:

atc guide for top belaying gri gri for lead belaying any other configuration means you never graduated gumbyhood idc how strong or accomplished you are

What if they use a Gigi for top belay? Is that + or - your GPA at graduation from Gumby high? :)

Who cares, he's still using an brake assisted belay device if that is your concern. 

Use what ever belay device you're comfortable with and just don't drop me.

Eric Marx wrote:

atc guide for top belaying gri gri for lead belaying any other configuration means you never graduated gumbyhood idc how strong or accomplished you are

Why the ATC for top belaying and not the Grigri?  You can use the ATC for top but the Grigri just seems so much easier.

Millennials will do anything to feel superior

I'm trolling guys, belay with whatever you want lol. Though objectively, the gri gri is the best.

Artem Vee wrote:

You don’t need to touch the grigri at all to feed slack when belaying optimally with it (due to a general failure in education, many people do not know how to do this, but the pistol grip is only a last resort kind of measure, not first choice) but right, no one device is the only answer for everybody, though if you reread my post, this has always been my stance. The gri gri just has the most points scored in my book - aka - best overall device (only thing it cant do are double ropes, while you can’t really LRS, TRS, aid, develop, etc easily on an ATC, which is a huge limitation for my climbing, and scores big negative overall points for me since the ATC can do less things than the gri gri can, therefore, it’s generally less useful).

Anecdotally, have never met an ATC-only belayer that was consistently as good as a gri-gri belayer, and this is due to the inherent limitations of an ATC. (Will they always dog the rope to help pull me up after a whip, can they feed and take up slack quickly and confidently in a way that leads to less bullshit when climbing hard, can we jug the rope quickly when stick clipping, etc). That doesn’t mean it doesn’t have it use, it does. It’s just limited.

I only say the ATC-only crowd is made up of luddites that don’t really climb much (or are old and stubborn as hell), because there are other devices on the market that quite obviously perform better than the ATC in a large variety of scenarios (though its important to acknowledge the ATC performs the best in it’s own niches, too). 

Tactical inflexiblility = weakness

Feel better now?

Used 2climb wrote:

Millennials will do anything to feel superior

Connor Dobson wrote: I like the grigri for both, but some people like atc guide or revo or pilot or smart or the juul.

How do you belay with a vape pen? This may be the key to me being cool in front of the Gen Z kids.

I could never use a Grigri because I don't like the name. "Air Traffic Controller", now THAT'S a name. If the Neox ever comes out, they should name it the Petzel Pterodactyl and I'll buy ten.

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

Why the ATC for top belaying and not the Grigri?  You can use the ATC for top but the Grigri just seems so much easier.

Not the poster of this comment but I use this configuration. For me, it’s faster and there’s less chance of dropping the device. I put the ATC on the anchor as I yell off belay. When the rope comes tight, I can load it in the ATC and clip it within like 5 seconds with no chance of dropping the device. Loading the gri gri with the rope hanging below me always makes me feel like I’m on the verge of dropping it. I don’t feel that way with the ATC.

Plus when my partner starts the next pitch, he hands me his gri gri, I put him on belay, and he takes the ATC off the anchor. It’s about as fast as transitions can be

Brooks K wrote:

Not the poster of this comment but I use this configuration. For me, it’s faster and there’s less chance of dropping the device. I put the ATC on the anchor as I yell off belay. When the rope comes tight, I can load it in the ATC and clip it within like 5 seconds with no chance of dropping the device. Loading the gri gri with the rope hanging below me always makes me feel like I’m on the verge of dropping it. I don’t feel that way with the ATC.

Plus when my partner starts the next pitch, he hands me his gri gri, I put him on belay, and he takes the ATC off the anchor. It’s about as fast as transitions can be

When I pull up rope I use a draw as a pulley, then when loading the device I reclip it into a clove to not have tension to avoid dropping the device. 

If we are swapping leads, when my partner arrives at the anchor, I just unclip the grigri from the anchor and clip it to my belay loop. Pretty much the fastest transition you can get. 

Artem Vee wrote:

All my ATC-only partners would fall victim to belayer shortcomings not necessarily because it was a personality defect of theirs, but because the ATC didn’t make for a good belaying experience on their end - leading to irritation, stress, and tiredness which I believe can lead to accident just the same as complacency can (or just an overall bad time).

To lock someone off with an ATC, I tie a mule/overhand. Then untie. Takes 1 second to untie and about 2 to tie. My mountaineering background makes for really fast knots.  

But that said, I get the OPs issue with a GriGri novice such as myself. During a lead climbing test at a gym yesterday, I short roped twice, and looped too much one time. I basically failed myself for all three incidents. The evaluators still passed me on the lead climbing portion. Will retake next week, and practice. It was the third time lead belaying with a GriGri, and on top of that I’m left handed.

Prior to the test I told them this, but the gym requires a GriGri.

Most trad climbers and mountaineers prefer tube style devices cause they are light and intuitive. That and you don’t need to take them completely off the carabiner and open the device. At altitude after 8 hours of climbing, fumbling about with a GriGri may be problematic and you may end up needing to use a Munter hitch after dropping the GrIGri. Try rappelling on a double rope. It’s really not safe nor useful outside the gym or on short outdoor sport climbs.

But, I know how to belay with a GriGri, the issue is becoming proficient with it, and I understand why the gym requires such a device. A couple gym days (40 to 50 climbs) or so, I should be pretty proficient with it.

Not a big deal, but I can see why some would object to it or simply state they don’t know how to use it. They likely do, but are uncomfortable with it.

Not quite a red flag. The REVO does function more like an assisted locking device. Any belay device takes a bit of skills to learn and a bit more to master.   My broken hand will attest to bad belayers and red flags!

if you don't do it exactly like I do it you must be s noob is a red flag for me.... 

grug g wrote:

Recently went climbing with a new partner. He told me that he can't use a grigri because he constantly short ropes with it. Instead he uses a wild country revo which is obviously superior to an ATC. 

Is this a red flag? Grigris aren't that hard to use. 

The principle of full disclosure in this case is a strength and allows a partner to make an informed decision regarding competence. Since this is a potential partner, it might be more straightforward to discuss your reservaton with them. Outsourcing a decision maybe helpful but the responsibility rests with you.