CMV: 'Biner Block Single Strand Rappel is the way

aikibujin wrote:

That's right, I don't have time to read all your posts. But I do skim the forum from time to time, and every single time I click on this thread I see some pretentious posts from you arguing with people who has been climbing longer than you have been alive. At first it's laughable, but like watching an insolent kid arguing with his parents in a public place, after a while it really started to get on my nerves. So I decided to waste a few minutes of my time to point out that yes, you're a 20-year-old know-it-all. Well... correction: a 27-year-old know-it-all. Hope that's better. It's not an assumption, it's a fact proven by your posts.

There are a lot of things you can't learn just by reading numbers posted on a label or on the manufacturer's web site, that's why experience is gained by doing, not by reading. I don't know and I don't care what the static elongation of my ropes are. Rappelling on my skinny rope is more bouncy than my thicker rope, that has been my experience using my ropes (not by looking at their numbers). If that's your "aha! gotcha!" moment you can have it. I'm not going to say it's impossible to find a thick rope that's stretchier than a thinner rope. If you have done (or claim to have done) a single strand, full length rappel on a vertical or overhanging wall (not a slab) with both your 8.9mm and 11mm ropes, and you tell me with a straight face that it's twice as bouncy to rappel on your 11mm than on your 8.9mm, I'll believe you. But that doesn't matter anyway. Using the reading comprehension you're so proud of, the point is that some ropes are a lot more stretchy than others, and for those stretchy ropes (whether it's due to thickness or other factors), rappelling on two strands is going to be a lot less bouncy than rappelling on a single strand. I personally prefer that my rope doesn't bounce me up and down like a bungee cord when I'm rappelling. Maybe after a few more years of actual climbing experience, you will give a shit about that too.

Great! I'm sure in your head that makes you an expert.

Now I'm just posting purely because it's fun. How's the view from the top?

I'm sorry bouncy rope give you so much trouble. Keep practicing, you'll get there!

Friendly reminder that it's possible to voice your opinion (and refer to empirical evidence) without being an asshole.

It's been a super busy week for me, and this thread has mostly been unpleasant and unproductive to engage with. Some of you are just straight up angry psychos and I don't understand how you enjoy living with yourselves.

If it continues to be a witless battleground of angry disagreements, personal attacks, and failures in reading comprehension, I'll go ahead and lock/delete it. That would be a shame, though, as I honestly was surprised to find almost no discussion of the biner-block style rappel in the forums, and thought this might be an interesting and informative dialogue to contribute to the catalogue. (Silly me, right?)

In the meantime I'm simply attempting to ignore and silence those of you who don't know how to communicate respectfully. That MP feature doesn't seem to work the way I'd hoped, though.

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Thanks to those of you with valid and reasonable responses. Fully agreed that there are a number of different ways to successfully rappel, and that having the knowledge to understand and employ varying tools and methodologies is invaluable.

All hail the alpine butterfly, for sure!

Thanks to those of you who mentioned the TazLov2 and AlpineUp. Definitely interesting devices worth taking a look at. 

Austin, I appreciate your "simul-rappel-esque with one person on the ground" thoughts, but that honestly terrifies me. I recognize and agree that so long as your counterweight stays engaged, it works. I just don't trust it as a system that relies on consistent human behavior, and would generally advise against it for the same reason I think simul-rapping in general is sub-optimal in most standard scenarios.

Bob Gaines I appreciate your input. Much respect. Definitely have some followup thoughts and questions I want to run by you. Will hopefully have more time after the weekend, ideally want to review in more detail the contents of your book first, and would be grateful for your continued thoughts. (Not sure it's wise or kind to ask you to engage in opinionated dialogue here, though...)

Jim Titt, you're undeniably a skilled and knowledgeable engineer&metallurgist but (1)in this thread, I'll ask that you make an effort to keep the snark in check, please. Your point isn't quite as clear when it's veiled in haughty peevishness and (2) I would say that a limestone cliff covered in bushes is probably in that 2% of times where I'd plan to go with a double strand tube with auto-block wrap. I don't live in Germany and don't climb shrub covered limestone all that often, but, Potrero limestone was somewhat shrubby, and I don't remember having too many issues with the biner block getting caught up in stuff.

Like others have said upthread: in theory and in practice, I don't and haven't find the biner block clove hitch to be all that much more likely to snag than the Flat Overhand Bend. Your Mileage (and Opinion) May Vary.

P.S.  Not only did I invent the single strand biner block rappel, I invented kernmantle ropes; I invented rock climbing; I invented mountains. I invented the question mark, ice cream, and the "6 Minute Abs" exercise program. Kneel before me, prostrate and supplicant!

Brent Kelly wrote:

Friendly reminder that it's possible to voice your opinion (and refer to empirical evidence) without being an asshole.

It's been a super busy week for me, and this thread has mostly been unpleasant and unproductive to engage with. Some of you are just straight up angry psychos and I don't understand how you enjoy living with yourselves.

If it continues to be a witless battleground of angry disagreements, personal attacks, and failures in reading comprehension, I'll go ahead and lock/delete it. That would be a shame, though, as I honestly was surprised to find almost no discussion of the biner-block style rappel in the forums, and thought this might be an interesting and informative dialogue to contribute to the catalogue. (Silly me, right?)

In the meantime I'm simply attempting to ignore and silence those of you who don't know how to communicate respectfully. That MP feature doesn't seem to work the way I'd hoped, though.

Jim Titt, you're undeniably a skilled and knowledgeable engineer&metallurgist but (1)in this thread, I'll ask that you make an effort to keep the snark in check, please. Your point isn't quite as clear when it's veiled in haughty peevishness ..

P.S.  Not only did I invent the single strand biner block rappel, I invented kernmantle ropes; I invented rock climbing; I invented mountains. I invented the question mark, ice cream, and the "6 Minute Abs" exercise program. Kneel before me, prostrate and supplicant!

Everyone needs to communicate in your preferred style? You’re insufferable. I’m looking forward to being “ignored.”

ETA: there’s probably 250 year’s worth of climbing experience that responded to your thread. The vast majority of it is telling you that your idea is a bad one. You’re re-inventing a wheel that’s been turning pretty well for awhile now. But everyone that tells you that is either a troll or a dick. Maybe the problem isn’t actually us.

Marc H wrote:

Everyone needs to communicate in your preferred style? You’re insufferable. I’m looking forward to being “ignored.”

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/125023361/the-official-biner-block-rappell-thread

Tradiban wrote:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/125023361/the-official-biner-block-rappell-thread

Are folks allowed to contribute good info if it’s interspersed with snark, sarcasm, or <gasp> haughty peevishness? What if you’ve had a tough week at work?

Marc H wrote:

Are folks allowed to contribute good info if it’s interspersed with snark, sarcasm, or haughty peevishness? What if you’ve had a tough week at work?

“The only people that interest me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones that never yawn or say a commonplace thing but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes ‘Awww”

              -Tradiban