Like a Drago but with a lower volume heel

Dan Dan wrote:

I have the exact same problem with the Instinct. They wrap around the sides of my ankle perfectly and seem like a great fit, but there is some deadspace underneath the heel/mid foot. I thought it was maybe because I was trying them way too downsized it was arching my foot up and trying the softer VSR (given I've only tried the VS) less downsized more would alleviate it a little, but it would probably just transfer the dead spot more under my heel than my mid foot, like you point out. I'll look out for this whenever I get back to trying on shoes. Like your experience with the Furia Air, the uber soft La Sportiva Maverink worked great on my foot which might say something out the duck foot shape and soft shoes. 

I didn't find Evolv rubber that bad (won't expand as I don't want to clog this thread), but in their more performance line I only got to try the X1 which had too deep of a heel cup. The Agro was on sale recently and I passed because I can't try them locally and wanted to move from Evolv, but your post makes me regret not taking a chance on them a bit, as I've seen lots of people praise their higher-end shoes like the Oracles for example.

Scarpa has no qualms about admitting they market their shoe toward narrow Italian feet, so many like myself can’t enjoy 90% of their lineup. Evolv is coming out with a soft comp shoe similar to the HiAngle design, might be worth checking out. The Agro and Phantom have served me very well in different disciplines.

@Karl 

I wish I could grab the VSW, but they don’t make down to my size (at least last time I checked). The VSR is one of the few that do fit, and the aforementioned Furia Air...that’s all the Scarpa enjoyment I get from their line.
I understand your views on Evolv, there’s no shortage of rubber on their shoes everyone knows that. I personally shrugged them off for a long time as well, especially the Agro design, but it ended up being a solid shoe for me for board training and indoor. The Phantom is useless to me indoor, but outdoor is a versatile shoe in my quiver. 

It's not cut and dry. If I lay the soles of my Instinct VSW against my Solution women, the Solutions are wider, but also pointier. The toebox is higher, but the last tapers vertically far more. It's weird. The VSR are definitely wider than the VSW by a hair, but same thing when compared to the men's Solutions.

I honestly find the Solution heel not bad, but hated Evolv heels. To me Evolvs felt like a Solution that never broke in, but I can see why some people like that. I prefer a bit more feedback and the Scarpa give me that but don't sacrifice edging. In fact, the edging is far better due to a lower amount of downturn because your toes don't push the rand forward over the edge and you get a better bite.

You have to search for the VSW or order from Scarpa. I wear a 41.5 and Backcountry used to have up to a 44 I think.

caughtinside wrote:

?

I don’t think that’s true. I always thought sportivas we much narrower than scarpa. I don’t have a narrow foot and scarpa general fits me better than most brands.

That said, the toe profile of the shoe is important. My big toe and second toe are the same length.  The Instincts don’t work for me, but vapors chimeras and boostics fit me well. 

Your front foot shape is same as mine. I’ve had to size down more in Sportiva than Scarpa, but I don’t like Sportiva’s shoes in general. There’s many more options nowadays from Scarpa as they broaden their variety, but historically I’ve only known climbers with narrow and low-volume feet to fit precise in their shoes, particularly their aggressive models.

 I wish more companies sized like Ocun where they take into account overall foot shape toe to heel and match you with a shoe that’s best for you, takes a lot of guesswork out, especially ordering online. 

caughtinside wrote:

I try to take some of the guesswork out by looking at the overhead view of the shoe on websites. For me, i need the instep of the shoe to run straight, right to the end of the big toe. If it draws in toward the pinkie toe, like many shoes do, they never work for me. 

That may be the case for me as well...because of said foot shape, many times my big toe won’t reach to the point of the shoe, and utilizing small edges is impossible, the point will flop off. I’ve always worn a soft shoe, so my toes are strong and I need all the power to hone in to the point of the toebox. If I can get that, then I crank a hard heel hook to see if the shoe peels off. If I can achieve both, the shoe is useful to me. So far the Furia Air has performed, and the feedback and feel I get from the thin design is amazing. 

That has more to do with toebox shape- the same thing happens to me with some Sportiva and oddly some UP shoes (never with Five Ten tho).

Late to the party.   Just chiming in as this is something I struggle with as well.  I have owned or tried on many of the shoes in this thread and have been generally disappointed in their heel fits with dead space under the heel. will throw a couple thoughts out there

All la sportiva heels I've tried on including the skwama women's were too deep for me

The Drago lv heel was thinner than the Drago but still too deep

Mad rock drone heels hv and lv are both too deep for me 

The evolv phantom lv heel fits me the best of any shoe I've tried but the toe box was a little too narrow for me.  Sizing up half a size to street shoe size and the heel ripped off on forceful heel hooks.  They also don't break in much and are not comfortable 

The evolv phantom hv is a good option but the toe box is very insensitive (much more so than the lv)  Rubber seems fine to me but required a thorough sanding as it's slippery out of the box

The Acopa Merlin has my favorite heel, toe combo on the market.  Heel is a little too wide for me but I can cinch it down pretty well with the laces.  There is still some dead space on the inside of the heel but it's usually not a functional issue.  The shoes are insensitive at first but break in to be medium soft after a month or so.  The rubber is on the softer, stickier, less edgey side imo. 

I also end up using my old model scarpa booster s a lot although that's not of much help these days.  They jumbo sized the heel on the new models so they no longer fit me unfortunately.

Instinct vsw is a good option as well but the toe profile doesn't work for me.

Would still be interested if anyone has any other shoes of interest 

Mike Kane wrote:

Late to the party.   Just chiming in as this is something I struggle with as well.  I have owned or tried on many of the shoes in this thread and have been generally disappointed in their heel fits with dead space under the heel. will throw a couple thoughts out there

All la sportiva heels I've tried on including the skwama women's were too deep for me

The Drago lv heel was thinner than the Drago but still too deep

Mad rock drone heels hv and lv are both too deep for me 

The evolv phantom lv heel fits me the best of any shoe I've tried but the toe box was a little too narrow for me.  Sizing up half a size to street shoe size and the heel ripped off on forceful heel hooks.  They also don't break in much and are not comfortable 

The evolv phantom hv is a good option but the toe box is very insensitive (much more so than the lv)  Rubber seems fine to me but required a thorough sanding as it's slippery out of the box

The Acopa Merlin has my favorite heel, toe combo on the market.  Heel is a little too wide for me but I can cinch it down pretty well with the laces.  There is still some dead space on the inside of the heel but it's usually not a functional issue.  The shoes are insensitive at first but break in to be medium soft after a month or so.  The rubber is on the softer, stickier, less edgey side imo. 

I also end up using my old model scarpa booster s a lot although that's not of much help these days.  They jumbo sized the heel on the new models so they no longer fit me unfortunately.

Instinct vsw is a good option as well but the toe profile doesn't work for me.

Would still be interested if anyone has any other shoes of interest 

Have you tried the new Katana or Solution Comp heel?

I've tried the new katana men's but not the solution comp or the katana women's. I've tried the og versions of both.  Are the updated solutions more shallow? 

Also regarding those, do you know if there's fit differences between the men's and women's models?  I watched a demo video for the theory at some point where the ls rep said the only difference between the theory models was the midsole stiffness.  

I'd have to order online to try on those models.

Mike Kane wrote:

I've tried the new katana men's but not the solution comp or the katana women's. I've tried the og versions of both.  Are the updated solutions more shallow? 

Also regarding those, do you know if there's fit differences between the men's and women's models?  I watched a demo video for the theory at some point where the ls rep said the only difference between the theory models was the midsole stiffness.  

I'd have to order online to try on those models.

The new Katana heel and the Solution Comp heel should be more narrow, though not sure on if it'll be more shallow. Fits me very well. It's also what they're using with the new No-Edge models.

With regards to overall fit differences between men's and women's models - this isn't super clear. They've recently said that there are no real differences in the last between men's and women's models and that it's just a difference in softness, but older La Sportiva models still distinguish men's vs women's lasts. Opinions are all over the place. Maybe takeaway is this: on newer models there's probably not much difference, but on older ones there might be?

There is no Sportiva shoe that is good for my narrow heels. Scarpa LV, Tenaya, and a select few Mad Rock models are all that fit well.

Mind sharing which Tenaya models you like?