4 Season Tent Recommendations

I settled on the Bibler Ahwahnee after trying many as it is an ideal 4 season tent. You will have to pry it from my dead hands. Open both sides and it's good to the warmest temperatures as it also has bug netting on both and is open the full length on both sides. Breathes better than any other tent fabric I know of and in winter it never needs more than a 1/2" crack in the door(s) if cooking / melting snow inside. Can be set up entirely from inside if in bad weather. Basically spread it out, jump inside pack and everything and set it up at your leisure from inside, out of nasty weather. Has a small footprint for narrow ledges and ample room for 2 with packs outside in garbage bags or add the optional vesiibule or even on both sides to have plenty of room for 2 and gear for base camp type scenarios. I use it almost entirely solo with my pack inside and no vestibule, but have used it a few times with one vestibule with another person for 2 or 3 day peak ascents where we share the load. Other Bibler models are similar in many ways like the single end vestibule Eldorado, or the dual end vestibule Fitzroy.

I looked hard at Hilleberg tents and learned that they are tents for the far north where the terrain is fairly flat with high winds and heavy snows. When they are fully staked out on flat ground, they are very strong and can hold a lot of snow with the hoop style vs. the X pole style like Biblers that can collapse in a corkscrew direction down with high snow load. The problem in any kind of mountaineering situation, though, is that there is seldom room to ideally stake them out and some guy points ending up going up and some going down makes it very difficult to get it taunt and there is a lot of extra fabric to start flapping around.

Hillebergs are also less breathable than Biblers which can be tested by pressing ones lips to the fabric and trying hard to blow through it. I challenge anyone to find a more breathable fabric than Todd-Tex.

MSR 4 season tents have historically been double wall, not breathable whatsoever and poorly ventilated, but yet it's marketing has always been world class. The one mentioned above is a wanna be Bibler Eldorado, that can't be setup from inside, and has a mere 20d fabric that shaves a couple of pounds but offers what ? Being fragile ? Claims to be breathable ? Try the lips test. I'll bet never having seen it that you will go blue in the face to get any air through that fabric. A leaky fabric slathered in just the right amount of DWR treatment to hopefully not leak until whatever warranty they do have is expired, Warranty that BTW is not defined in any certain terms. Some things never change. The price of this garbage goes up, the Marketing BS goes up with it and the quality and warranty go down.

I wouldn't get too far from civilization with only one of those.

The only caveat I have is that I have not personally seen or tested a Bibler tent since Black Diamond bought them out. There could have been shortcuts taken after that that compromised the origional quality. The tent I have is an origional Bibler and the Todd Tex fabric is a 2 ply Gore-Tex membrane with a fuzzy wicking layer on the inside. It does require seam sealing on the outside when new.

David Pneuman wrote:

Hillebergs are also less breathable than Biblers which can be tested by pressing ones lips to the fabric and trying hard to blow through it. I challenge anyone to find a more breathable fabric than Todd-Tex.

I disagree with you on several points.  I’m not going to bother arguing as most are just opinion. 

This one you state as fact though and it’s false. Hilleberg tents are double wall tents and the interior tent is as breathable as anything available for mountaineering use. Todd Tex fabric doesn’t hold a candle to a Hilleberg in breathability. Todd Tex was a really good single wall fabric for its time, but it’s not better than a double wall Hilleberg at controlling condensation.

I own a Hilleberg Keron 3 and have used it on multiple trips to the Alaska Range in late spring (very cold) and early summer temps. I’ve also used a Bibler itent and bomb shelter in the same places and same temps. They are all excellent tents but the Hilleberg handles condensation and breathability better no question.  

That’s funny. I have a 3-season hilleberg and, using it in warm, wet, condensation prone conditions it breathes far worse than my BD Eldorado in the same conditions. In the eldorado, the moisture works it’s way out. In the Hilleberg, it goes out the inner mesh and just gets stuck in the inside of the outer silnylon fly, eventually raining back down. 

DeLa Cruce wrote:

That’s funny. I have a 3-season hilleberg and, using it in warm, wet, condensation prone conditions it breathes far worse than my BD Eldorado in the same conditions. In the eldorado, the moisture works it’s way out. In the Hilleberg, it goes out the inner mesh and just gets stuck in the inside of the outer silnylon fly, eventually raining back down. 

I was discussing mountaineering uses though (which your Hilleberg tent is not designed for), as that is what the original post is looking for a tent for. Any time I've used a single wall tent in high cold places (which has been mostly todd-tex fabrics), I have had to deal with the wet and frost buildup inside the tent that eventually wets out everything inside the tent. With the Hilleberg, that condensation passes through the inner tent to the outer wall and freezes on there, which keeps it from wetting out the items in the inner tent when it dries. 

It's not like this is news. Freezing condensation is the biggest criticism of single wall tents in alpine climbing use. That doesn't mean they don't have their place and purpose. They are the go-to when weight matters most. The statement that nothing at all breathes as well as todd-tex is what I'm arguing with. 

I agree with Nate about ToddTex. I have an 18 yo Bibler Eldorado (ToddTex) that I used to pack with a sponge to soak up the condensation that would drip and, in warmer weather, pool on the floor. Good reason to have a Pertex shell sleeping bag!  I also have a Hilleberg Anjan, 3 season, double wall, which is much more breathable, no condensation inside. The Anjan is not free standing, but can be put up relatively easily, almost no matter the windspeed. Same thing with my 4 season Slingfin, double wall Crossbow2 - no inner condensation, possible to put in a gale.

The Bibler Eldorado is like the BD Firstlight in that pitching them, from the inside, in strong winds is difficult to impossible. Slingfin's Webtruss system avoids these problems.

I'd like to be able to afford a super light Samaya. Next pick is the Slingfin Hotbox.

NateC wrote:

I was discussing mountaineering uses though (which your Hilleberg tent is not designed for), as that is what the original post is looking for a tent for. Any time I've used a single wall tent in high cold places (which has been mostly todd-tex fabrics), I have had to deal with the wet and frost buildup inside the tent that eventually wets out everything inside the tent. With the Hilleberg, that condensation passes through the inner tent to the outer wall and freezes on there, which keeps it from wetting out the items in the inner tent when it dries. 

It's not like this is news. Freezing condensation is the biggest criticism of single wall tents in alpine climbing use. That doesn't mean they don't have their place and purpose. They are the go-to when weight matters most. The statement that nothing at all breathes as well as todd-tex is what I'm arguing with. 

That was just one example. I obviously haven’t used the hilly in a mountaineering context but have used both the eldorado and rab latok while mountaineering and condensation has never been an issue. Granted, never for multiple nights on end. Perhaps other materials breathe better than todd tex, but surely silnylon isn’t one of them. Silnylon tents don’t breathe at all, the double wall construction just moves the problem out a layer. 

I think people are confusing Breathable with Ventable. A Hilleberg is a double wall tent. The inside wall is very breathable, the area between the walls is very ventable and the outer wall not very breathable, but depending on the model, somewhat ventable. In milder, still wind situations, that can be hot. If there is a lot of blowing snow, sometimes a weak spot is at ground level, especially if pitched askew at all. Berms may need to be created to protect that area, whereas with the Ahwahnee, I just pile in the tent with pack and all and setup from inside and no berms are necessary. I can be warming water and the tent with a small Pocket Rocket 2 minutes from selecting a camp site, even before setting up the poles from inside by using my pack and trekking poles as temporary supports.

With a Bibler Awahnee in particular ( And perhaps a Fitzroy too ) , in milder situations, you merely unzip the doors to the maximum appropriate amount and it becomes a no wall tent with nearing 100% ventilation. In more severe conditions it can be sealed up more tightly. In the case of the Ahwahnee, there is protection at the top if unzipped not much more than 2" and since it is on both sides can be regulated very well to vent with no moisture entering from the windward side, maybe 1/2",  and a larger moisture exiting the opening on the leeward side, maybe 2 or more inches.

David Pneuman wrote: MSR 4 season tents have historically been double wall, not breathable whatsoever and poorly ventilated, but yet it's marketing has always been world class. The one mentioned above is a wanna be Bibler Eldorado, that can't be setup from inside

Between the msr advance pro 2 (exterior poles) and a bd first light (interior poles) I’ve found exterior easier to set up. I think they are both great tents once up, but I have to sigh “here we go again” whenever it’s time to fiddle around with interior poles

Granted. It can be tedious especially with the wind blowing. I CA glue those plastic tips you can get from Home Depot over the pole ends so I don't spear my floor trying to hit the snap receptacles.

I've used many. Big Agnes has a 4season double wall tent that is light and compact - used that from the SHT in MN to Aconcagua and Rainier. Their 2 person is nice and livable for 1, decent for 2 - but a bit cramped on long mountaineering trips.

I've also used all of the BD single wall tents. I'm currently using the Highlight 3 (because I'm a tall guy). I am solo 25% of the time and with a partner 75% of the time, and the highlight I can do both with easily.

For ultralight in 4 season, I really like the teepee set up with a UL poly ground sheet. I use the BD Megalight teepee and it has worked just fine on Mt. Rainier (and I seam sealed it). Tiny pack size but huge space for 2, and it's then my cook tent in winter.

If I were you and wanted something really versatile, I'd look at a pyramid style with a mesh insert/bathtub bottom you can use summer/winter. I currently use the BD Highlight 3 because it is water proof and has big screens, and freestanding. So when I fly to the PNW I can be waterproof down in the trees and light when up in the mountains. If I had some more $$$ I would probably do a mid with an insert. Harder to settup no doubt, but unless you are in one of the big ranges they are plenty. Good luck!