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Tennis Elbow success stories?

Ryan Wood · · Bend, OR · Joined Feb 2019 · Points: 205

Train antagonist, use your thumb when gripping, and train your extensors.

I’ve had both and they went away immediately (literally in a couple days) once I stopped only training for climbing and did the above. 

Avram Neal · · Salt Lake City · Joined Sep 2022 · Points: 0
grug g wrote:

Adding this: you should implement the habits from my post above ASAP. Then expect it to take about 2-3 months to fully work.

For some optimism: I have had Tennis Elbow severely twice and have beaten it twice with no surgery. I am now climbing harder than ever.

I already started daily pushups (I didn't ask PT as I figured they can't really hurt at this point). I also started using the flex bar again, in addition to my regular exercise routine.

Seeing my PT and going to go over everyone's suggestions in this thread with him.

Thanks everyone. 

Michael Palmer · · Scottsdale · Joined Nov 2015 · Points: 56

i struggled with elbow tendonitis. I did the bands, the bars, the stretches--anything i could find--but it would always come back with weighted pullups or steep climbing.  Turns out I have bone spurs on my elbows (and my heels too i bet).  I found out when one of the bone spurs snapped off while climbing.

Do you have any family history of bone spurs?

Darren Mabe · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669

+1 for the Thera-dong flex bar blue. Tyler twist. Google it. Many years as climber and window cleaner with elbow issues. Swear by it. 

Avram Neal · · Salt Lake City · Joined Sep 2022 · Points: 0

Re: Michael Palmer -

No bone spurs in my family that I'm aware of. I'm 38 and I've never had any issues in my arms like this until I discovered climbing and started pushing myself in the gym.

Update: Since I've added pushups and flex bar, arm has been a bit more sore/stiff/achy in general. I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. 

grug g · · SLC · Joined Jul 2022 · Points: 0
Avram Neal wrote:

Re: Michael Palmer -

No bone spurs in my family that I'm aware of. I'm 38 and I've never had any issues in my arms like this until I discovered climbing and started pushing myself in the gym.

Update: Since I've added pushups and flex bar, arm has been a bit more sore/stiff/achy in general. I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. 

Recommendation to not go from 0 push ups and 0 therabar ---> daily 100 push ups and daily 100 therabar. 

Ease into it and slowly ramp over time. Patience is KEY for this type of injury.

E MuuD · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 160

Pushups worked for me, the flex bar didn't.  I now do pushups regularly as part of my warm up. I've not had an issue in 4 years.

Alan C · · CA · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 0

Mine wasn't as bad as you are describing, however, I have had Total success with this. 

Theraband Flexbar (green). ARMAID. 

I kept my therband with me religiously and used it between every climb, during the warmup, and at the end. The worse the pain, the more time I spent on the bar, vs rock. Then you wean off it asI you recover. The exercises with the bar should provide resistance opposite to what you feel climbing. You probably already know this. 

Then Armaid every day. 

If you have it reallly really bad, instead of climbing, I'd use the weight assist pull up machine to load the tendon instead of climbing :( 

Total success with this after lots of experimentation. I had medial in the right arm, and lateral on the left so this really worked for both. 

Jim Lawyer · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 6,301

What worked for me was heat, then vigorous (painful) massage of the area. The elbow doc said new data showed that heat promotes healing to the area. (The affected area has very poor blood flow, which impedes healing.) After 2 years of terrible pain in both elbows (couldn’t lift a carton of milk), lots of docs, useless PT, therabands, stretching…pretty much everything discussed upthread—mine cleared right up and hasn’t returned.

Edited to add: icing was recommended by just about everyone. I did ice baths every night for 2 years…no change. 

Avram Neal · · Salt Lake City · Joined Sep 2022 · Points: 0
grug g wrote:

Recommendation to not go from 0 push ups and 0 therabar ---> daily 100 push ups and daily 100 therabar. 

Ease into it and slowly ramp over time. Patience is KEY for this type of injury.

Ya, I started at 20 pushups per day. Now I'm at 30-40 after about a week. Thanks for the advice.

For the therabar twist stuff, I'm just been doing it while I watch TV until I "feel" like I've done it enough. Haven't really been counting.

Owen Wilkins · · Lebanon, NH · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 0
Jim Lawyer wrote:

What worked for me was heat, then vigorous (painful) massage of the area. The elbow doc said new data showed that heat promotes healing to the area. (The affected area has very poor blood flow, which impedes healing.) After 2 years of terrible pain in both elbows (couldn’t lift a carton of milk), lots of docs, useless PT, therabands, stretching…pretty much everything discussed upthread—mine cleared right up and hasn’t returned.

Edited to add: icing was recommended by just about everyone. I did ice baths every night for 2 years…no change. 

this is good advice. i have used this for other injuries with success. i believe the rationale is that if scar tissue exists in the injured area, the massage helps to break it up so that you can then retrain it into functional tissue 

Jeff G · · Colorado · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,108

Ice is appropriate if the condition is acute, within the first few days.  Most climbers are dealing with a tendinopathy (chronic scar from repeated overuse)  not an acute tendinitis.   Heat is very helpful with tendinopathy.

Jeff G · · Colorado · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,108
Owen Wilkins wrote:

this is good advice. i have used this for other injuries with success. i believe the rationale is that if scar tissue exists in the injured area, the massage helps to break it up so that you can then retrain it into functional tissue 

Ice is appropriate if the condition is acute, within the first few days.  Most climbers are dealing with a tendinopathy (chronic scar from repeated overuse)  not an acute tendinitis.   Heat is very helpful with tendinopathy. 

It's difficult to break up scar tissue with just massage.  That's where you need an edge tool to really help break down the unhealthy scar.  The Wave Tool excels with this and even has arcs specifically for the elbow and fingers for climbers.

https://wavetoolstherapy.com/

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349
Avram Neal wrote:

I'm not really looking for advice as much as I am looking for success stories of people overcoming this really annoying injury...

I've had Tennis Elbow (lateral epicondylitis) for over 7 months now after pushing myself hard in the gym about 2-3 days a week for months early this year. I've been doing all the exercises my PT prescribed to me religiously. Throughout the last 7 months I've still been climbing, but pretty casually, and way less often. I've mostly tried to avoid the gym, as after about 2 routes there, the tendon flares up very quickly and is quite painful. Slabby routes outside I seem to do fine on, however... So ya.. 7 months in and I've seen little improvement, despite all my efforts. If I hit the 12 month mark without much more improvement, I may start seriously considering some sort of surgery.

Has anyone beat this thing without surgery? I'd be really curious to hear some detailed stories from people. Most posts I see are people asking for advice about tennis elbow, but I see very little success stories!

Thanks

I cured mine forever with the advice given by Steve Ilg a fitness trainer from Boulder. You do a barbell exercise he calls a “modified Frenchey”.
You do this special lift only after about 3 hours of Arm work- it builds the tiny muscles that keep the bones in your elbow aligned. DM me for more if interested. 

grug g · · SLC · Joined Jul 2022 · Points: 0
Guy Keesee wrote:

I cured mine forever with the advice given by Steve Ilg a fitness trainer from Boulder. You do a barbell exercise he calls a “modified Frenchey”.
You do this special lift only after about 3 hours of Arm work- it builds the tiny muscles that keep the bones in your elbow aligned. DM me for more if interested. 

Why bother posting something like this if you don't plan to share? Let's hear what the Frenchey is

Halbert · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 612
Avram Neal · · Salt Lake City · Joined Sep 2022 · Points: 0

Re: Heat / Massage / Wavetool advice

I'm starting a weekly graston routine with my PT starting tomorrow. 

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349
grug g wrote:

Why bother posting something like this if you don't plan to share? Let's hear what the Frenchey is

Cause I’m busy…. Ilg is a trainer from Boulder. Has written several books on fitness.

His cure- that worked for me and a friend is this.
A Frenchey is when your lying on your back, on a bench. You hold the bar with your hands about 2-3 inches apart. Start with hands on forehead press hands toward ceiling.
The modified part is you don’t press hands till your arms are straight…. You go from forehead to the point where your arms just go 90 degrees- no further and back to forehead. Dead simple right. But for this to have an effect on your elbows you must destroy every other muscle in your arms and shoulders. Work them till they are weak…. This would take about 3 hours in the weight room. Look up arm exercises… then your ready to work the elbows. Select a bar thats not to heavy- I liked to use the bent one with no extra weight. You lie on your back, hands close together. Back of your hands on forehead, push up till your forearms are parallel with floor - no farther - then back to forehead. Do about 30 reps. You should not do this to MMF (if you hit MMF you have to much weight) give it about 3-4 sets. You’ll know if your getting the benefits when you “feel it”- a warm sensation around your elbows as you do it. Remember your arms are blasted- this keeps the big muscles in your arms from helping the little muscles in your elbows. Those tiny muscles don’t get much work in everyday life so not to strong. Their purpose is mainly to keep the bones held together, when they are weak (most people) the bones move around and you get inflammation and scar tissue- this causes the pain. Before climbing on plastic was a thing most climbers never got elbow pain. Just regular climbing didn’t stress your elbows to much and folks became “strong “ more slowly…. I find that the quickest way to get bad elbows is to hang board, pull down hard with your fingers bent- especially the middle finger crimped. Climbers today get very strong quickly and if you have unstable elbow joints, the bones moving around, you will experience it. Last thing- why is it called “tennis elbow”? Because most folks who start playing tennis send shockwaves up their arms- think micro dislocations.- causing pain.
This information is in “The Outdoor Athlete” Ilg.

Being a boomer- as I’ve been called- leaves me with shitty googling skills. I remember this exercise quite clearly because I read about it and it really really worked for me.

I hope Avram finds it helpful. 

Avram Neal · · Salt Lake City · Joined Sep 2022 · Points: 0

Re: Guy Keesee

Wow, that sounds intense! This is the first I've read anything like this. Very informative. I'm going to show my PT and see what he thinks. Looks like a very time consuming workout, but worth it if it works... Would probably be something to at least try before surgery, if everything else fails. How many times per week would you go through that routine?

Thanks.

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349
Avram Neal wrote:

Re: Guy Keesee

Wow, that sounds intense! This is the first I've read anything like this. Very informative. I'm going to show my PT and see what he thinks. Looks like a very time consuming workout, but worth it if it works... Would probably be something to at least try before surgery, if everything else fails. How many times per week would you go through that routine?

Thanks.

My friend and I would do Arms 2 times per week and legs 1 time. Each week we reversed the work out. So do the exercise after arms. We would do 3 month regimen during the winter. Improvement occurred after one winter season of workouts. The next year I spent the season climbing cracks and avoided crimping unless absolutely necessary. After 2nd year of work outs I could crimp down hard. I’m sure this helped me put that problem away forever. 

I’ve had several surgeries over the years, don’t say yes to it unless your surgeon knows exactly what is wrong with you. Have you had a MRI with contrast? What does doctor say?

Good luck, having chronic pain sucks big time. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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