Grigri is the shittiest assisted breaking belay device on the market

Cairn War Machine wrote:

Just cover the bottom of the device in sharp spikes. Then no one will grab the entire thing! 

I was thinking butter, but spikes might work.

Just anecdotally but most of the grigri accidents I've heard of are when a noob is lowering, panics, and pulls the lever harder like it's a brake, dropping the climber. The Mad Rock Lifeguard recommended in the OP has the same problem/flaw, while the Grigri plus has safeguards against this.

I’ll be honest, I zoned out for the last few pages.

For real though:

Just get a megajul and a rope <10mm in diameter, and you’ll be set for everything.

Geometry > technology

if your partner is hangdogging while you belay with the megajul, can you take your hand off the brake even for a split second to rip open a cliff bar?

petzl logic wrote:

if your partner is hangdogging while you belay with the megajul, can you take your hand off the brake even for a split second to rip open a cliff bar?

You can if you're fast enough   

petzl logic wrote:

if your partner is hangdogging while you belay with the megajul, can you take your hand off the brake even for a split second to rip open a cliff bar?

Absolutely. But you should, regardless of device, tie a quick knot below it, megajul or grigri. 

Matt B wrote:

Absolutely. But you should, regardless of device, tie a quick knot below it, megajul or grigri. 

Ok, cool. Can i set routes without a third hand... and live? 

petzl logic wrote:

Ok, cool. Can i set routes without a third hand... and live? 

OK, maybe not "everything" everything, but I find it has been the best all-around device for single pitch and multipitch sport and trad for my uses. I don't set routes, so can't speak to that. When I rappel with it, I use a third hand, which may not be everyone's cup of tea. Considering your username, I imagine you won't be swayed by my personal experience. That's fine.

I've converted quite a few GriGri users to the Megajul after they see mine and use it a bit. Maybe it doesn't work for you, but it's so simple and effective that I've seen it work better for me in most use cases than a GriGri.

What I can say is that every lead belay I've gotten with the Megajul, including new users, has been better than every GriGri belay I've ever gotten. YMMV, but that's my experience.

TLDR...But I'll buy your cinch off you...

I'd be in the don't like Grigri's line.  I think their popularity greatly stems from first coming out when indoor climbing (and climbers) grew exponentially. Timing....

Crack Me Up wrote:

I'd be in the don't like Grigri's line.  I think their popularity greatly stems from first coming out when indoor climbing (and climbers) grew exponentially. Timing....

the gri gri came out in 1991. Thats 31 years ago. I would say their popularity has something to do with the fact the device is relatively unchanged for 30 years because it was such a progression in climbing belay devices. People only had it as a choice for 15+ years until the cinch came out. Popularity has little to do with the it.... it was the only device on the market for a LONG time, so what else ya gonna get?

And to this day, every single cam style belay device is basically working on the exact principles as the OG gri gri.
Until something truly revolutionary comes about, the king will remain in its throne.

In Eugene, Oregon there is Skinner Butte in the middle of town which holds a basalt cliff with several anchors (30 climbs).  In 1995 the first gymn went in three blocks away.  Rocklimbing became sport climbing which became gymn climbing.  If it weren't for gymns and the hords that access them, the grigri would not be so popular.  Timing, exponential growth.  The grigri will go away when someone severely undercuts it price and markets the inexpensive replacement to urban climbers. 

There is now one climbing gymn and one bouldering gymn within three blocks of Skinners Butte. 

Crack Me Up wrote:

In Eugene, Oregon there is Skinner Butte in the middle of town which holds a basalt cliff with several anchors (30 climbs).  In 1995 the first gymn went in three blocks away.  Rocklimbing became sport climbing which became gymn climbing.  If it weren't for gymns and the hords that access them, the grigri would not be so popular.  Timing, exponential growth.  The grigri will go away when someone severely undercuts it price and markets the inexpensive replacement to urban climbers. 

There is now one climbing gymn and one bouldering gymn within three blocks of Skinners Butte. 

The fact remains the Gri Gri had no competition, so by default, wouldn't it be the most popular device of its type due to that? Literally no other option to become more popular.

There are many many devices that undercut the gri gri's price point in todays climbing climate that are assisted braking.... yet who's still on top of market share by a HUGE margin. The Gri Gri is.

Yep, no competition for awhile, 1991 appearance when rockclimbing was heavily shifting to sport climbing and starting its growth... that's part of the timing to me.  Figure 8s were the belay device of choice until 1995 for me and my friends.  For all the benefits of the grigri (except weight and price) the Camp Matik is much better in my opinion. I swapped the first generation grigri out for a trango cinch back in the day.  Now, I have a matik for the newbie climbers I take out.  I'm not aware of anyone who has "severely undercut" the grigri's price.        What autobelay devices are there out on the market that are less than $40?  I'll check them out.  

Matt B wrote:

What I can say is that every lead belay I've gotten with the Megajul, including new users, has been better than every GriGri belay I've ever gotten. YMMV, but that's my experience.

I’ve predominantly gotten great belays off grigris. Maybe you’ve just gotten crap belayers who happened to be using grigris.

I mean, it doesn’t even make sense to me, I’ve gotten basically flawlessly fed lead belays, I don’t know how a megajul would automatically do better unless it magically clipped the draws for me.

Crack Me Up wrote:

In Eugene, Oregon there is Skinner Butte in the middle of town which holds a basalt cliff with several anchors (30 climbs).  In 1995 the first gymn went in three blocks away.  Rocklimbing became sport climbing which became gymn climbing.  If it weren't for gymns and the hords that access them, the grigri would not be so popular.  Timing, exponential growth.  The grigri will go away when someone severely undercuts it price and markets the inexpensive replacement to urban climbers. 

There is now one climbing gymn and one bouldering gymn within three blocks of Skinners Butte. 

Um, no. By 1995, most sport climbers in Europe had a grigri, sans gyms, and there were already a lot of sport climbers in Europe by 1995. The US was a MUCH smaller part of the market for the French, if even considered.

Lol megajul

https://youtu.be/hhFc5N4DaG4

"Good belay" means different things to different people.  On vertical-to-overhanging terrain with clean falls, past the 3rd bolt, "good belay" might mean maintaining enough slack to do most clips w/o extra slack.  On less-than-vertical terrain with dirty falls, it might mean maintaining minimal slack and giving it fast for clipping.  The discussion of which device is "best" should be split based on that at least.

J G wrote:

Lol megajul

https://youtu.be/hhFc5N4DaG4

That's odd. I've used it in that exact scenario and never had that happen. Because it's geometry based, I wonder if the different carabiner choice makes a difference? I regularly use 9.1-9.5 ropes with no slipping at full body weight. I use the steel locker (bruce?) they make for it though, and it's a bit beefier than the strike, I think.  I'm sure there are other threads about this and don't intend to go down this rabbit hole.

Again, not saying it's the best at everything, but I think it is the best all-arounder of the existing choices for most of the stuff I do. I do often chuckle when I see people with a GriGri and a separate ATC for a rappel on multipitch routes.

At the end of the day, use the belay device that you and your partners feel comfortable with, and don't flame other people for their choice, amiright?

Hope for Movement wrote:

Um, no. By 1995, most sport climbers in Europe had a grigri, sans gyms, and there were already a lot of sport climbers in Europe by 1995. The US was a MUCH smaller part of the market for the French, if even considered.

I don't know what "Um, no" is in response to.  The trend over the last 30 years hasn't been rock climbing to sport climbing to gymn clmbing in the US?  The US isn't the single largest country market for the grigri?  I didn't say anything about Europe in 1995, or Europeans.   Besides, Europe has 44 countries, the US is one.    

As a note: Smith Rock was a great place in the late 80s, early 90s with as many or more Europeans than Americans climbing routes when I was there (around 30 times).  Still makes me smile remembering hearing German and Spanish cursing echoing after falls. Now it's Disneyland-- not the French one-- but the old Disneyland with long lines.