Shoe pain as intermediate

Hallo all,

Been climbing for a little while now, and made the successful transition from Tarantulaces in the  gym to my first pair of TC pro’s.

climbed all last summer and all winter in the gym with them and of course they excel in some areas and just aren’t built for other areas such as bouldering and steep stuff as you know.

I’m trying to transition to expanding my quiver of shoes, and looking for something that has a more aggressive downturn and a more bouldering/overhanging route focused build to it such as LS katana, Miura, Skwama.

Now to my point: tried on a pair of solutions at REI today in one size smaller than my TC pros, and like, I legitimately couldn’t believe anyone could wear something so painful, like, I couldn’t take two steps in them without being in pain. But I also read somewhere that if your toes aren’t curled up in an aggressive shoe, don’t even bother with the aggressive shoe… Am I missing something here? Do I just need to grow into the pain? I unfortunately didn’t have a larger size available to me to try on but I feel like any bigger and my toes wouldn’t have been curled up in the toe box.

I don’t climb hard enough to wear shoes that hurt. Even when I was climbing my hardest (11 on a good day) I was wearing comfy kicks - and I promise you that my shoes were not the limiting factor.  If you can’t walk in them without pain they’re not the right size.
edit: “walk” meaning from the wall to the bench. 

Climbing shoe fits, I've found can vary even within the brand. You can expect solutions to stretch a little bit, as they are made out of leather, they certainly wont have the comfortable fit of a TC or tarantulace. Those shoes are designed for all day climbing in the gym/outdoors, and the fit you choose should probably reflect that. High performance shoes like solutions probably shouldnt feel comfortable to walk around in, as they are designed to be climbed in. Many people choose to wear solutions for as long as they are climbing, and then they are taken off to walk around. Your feet should be curled, but if it is too painful to climb, or even wear them, I recommend that you size up. If you try a higher size and they dont fit the way you think they are supposed to, you should look for other aggressive shoes that might fit your feet better.

I went from a pair of Mythos at first (too big and stretchy) to a pair of Skwamas (too small and agressive for what I do). If shoes are too uncomfortable you won't be able to climb in them even remotely well, because  you will be preoccupied with the pain. 

Then I bought a pair of small but comfortable Scarpa Thunder and they have been my go to gym shoe. Small enough for precision but comfortable enough for extended sessions. They are about to die so I'm looking for a replacement. 

Most recently I bought a pair of Katana Laces in the same sizes that I had for the Mythos. They are great for what you describe. I find them very comfortable and very capable at steep and slightly overhanging stuff and I can even slab in them now that I have broken them in a bit. 

Just say no to painful shoes!  Many of us got suckered into too-small shoes when we started out.  Your painful toes will make your climbing worse, not better. 

I don't think you necessarily need to size down from your TC pros. Could you climb all day in your TC pros without taking them off?  Could you hike down a rocky trail in them after a long day of climbing?  If so, then yeah maybe size down.  On the other hand, if you have to take your TCs off between routes at the gym, they're already too small.

Solutions don't work for everyone.....I made the mistake of thinking that if Ondra can climb hard in solutions I should be able to make some gains in solutions....Quickly realized my feet aren't the right shape or volume for solutions (and many other shoes).

You want something that fits your foot well and you won't notice any pain when you are climbing even if they aren't "aggressive" shoes.

Many a pro climber climbed 5.15 before aggressive shoes were invented.  Sharma crushed in the old, flat Anasazi VCS

Katana Lace in same size as TCPros works for me.  Both are 1/2 size too small 'cuz LaSpo doesn't make their good shoes over size 46.

index ape wrote:

Climbing shoe fits, I've found can vary even within the brand. You can expect solutions to stretch a little bit, as they are made out of leather, they certainly wont have the comfortable fit of a TC or tarantulace. Those shoes are designed for all day climbing in the gym/outdoors, and the fit you choose should probably reflect that. High performance shoes like solutions probably shouldnt feel comfortable to walk around in, as they are designed to be climbed in. Many people choose to wear solutions for as long as they are climbing, and then they are taken off to walk around. Your feet should be curled, but if it is too painful to climb, or even wear them, I recommend that you size up. If you try a higher size and they dont fit the way you think they are supposed to, you should look for other aggressive shoes that might fit your feet better.

This perfectly states my opinion.
Of my 5 pairs of shoes, my most aggressive shoe is the Kataki (which is not the most agressive of shoes but good for me). If you look at a photo of it, look at the shape and stiffness, you can immediately understand, you do not walk in it. I sized it so it was only a bit uncomfortable when sitting with no weight on my feet when new. Pay attention to how the heel cup feels when sitting. You do not walk in it. My broken in Kataki is perfectly comfortable when climbing on steep rock. When between routes, it’s better to take them off. You do not walk in it.

Has anybody said yet, for this kind of climbing shoe, you do not walk in it, it’s stupid to walk in it, it will hurt to walk in it? What matters is how it feels when climbing. 

Switching shoes is not an emergency. Take your time, and try many different models. Don’t settle for painful shoes. Tight fitting and downturned doesn’t equal painful. And just because you wear flat shoe from one brand, doesn’t mean that a downturned shoe from the same brand would also fit you. I climb in La Sportiva Testarossas. Solutions don’t fit me at all.

And you may not need to jump from TC pro to Solution. Just a slight downturn of katanas or Muiras might be enough to get the benefit on overhanging terrain.

The gyms often have “demos” where a specific brand rep shows up with a few models of shoes in all sizes that you can borrow for the evening, and actually climb in. 

The same is true at most outdoor climbing “fests”. E.g. during Rocktoberfest at the Red you can get shoe demos from all major brands, and take the shoes out with you for a full day of climbing.

These types of events would be your best bet to really feel confident that the shoes you are buying fit you well. 

I actually find the more aggressively down turned a shoe the less important a tight fit is.  The tightest shoe I have is a 35.5 TC pro which I wear for hard stemming or on vertical or less pitches.  My sending/hard projecting TC’s are 36 for steepish granite.  For steeper (but not tufa steep) I use a 36.5 Muir’s VS.  And for even steeper or bouldering I use a 37 solution/Instinc.

When you cram your foot in a really small shoe the whole package becomes very rigid which is important for hard edging or stemming.  But the rigidity is counter productive the steeper the climbing is.  A looser fitting shoe will allow some flexibility and articulation in the distal part of your foot which allows for better ability to pull in with your foot.  The steeper the climbing the more important that ability to pull becomes.  Generally speaking the softer a shoe is the better it will perform on the steeper terrain since it will be more flexible.  The inverse is also true and stiffer shoes perform better on lower angle edging routes.

My advice is to take the tight shoes back and get something that is just slightly uncomfortable.  You should be able to easily walk to the gym front desk without breaking down in tears.  Save those tears for more important things in life.

As a beginner I totally bought into the idea that performance oriented shoes are just going to hurt for some time and that I need to suck it up, grit down and work through it. That did work, but the shoes I chose never really felt great. Then I decided to try some other performance oriented shoes (LS genius, LS theory) and they were literally comfortable from day one, even downsized further than the other brand I was using before (scarpa). I think finding a performance shoe that fits your foot well isn't a always a matter of toughing through the pain, but trying various shoes and various brands until you have both the right fit and the right feel. 

You might want to look into which type of feet you have. The shape and volume of your feet makes it so that not every shoe fits for you. See https://rockclimbingmyworld.wordpress.com/2014/12/12/rock-climbing-shoes-and-how-to-choose-them/ for some incredible valuable tips on choosing the right shoe * for you *

Picked up some Solutions about 2 years ago, but found I really don't need them for anything within my grade range (they just sit in storage untilt he day I'm strong enough and find something worthy of their price tag lol). I just use my Tarantulaces for everything.

Slab? Tarantulace. Vertical face? Tarantulace. Overhanging (including basically bat hang toe hooks)? Tarantulace. Lead, top rope, boulder, trad? Tarantulace. LCC or City of Rocks Granite? Logan Utah Limestone? Welded Tuff? Sandstone? Tarantulace.

There is really not much need for an expensive shoe until much higher level climbing. Just a well fitted one. A cheap, comfy beater shoes world just fine.

I'm not super strong, but anything in gyms up to about 5.12 my tarantulace work fine on and haven't had an issue outside up to 5.10b (no experience higher than that lol). I've also done both gym and outdoor bouldering up to V5 (including cave/roof boulders).

If you're doing competitions or like 5.13 sport, then maybe, but I don't have any experience at that level so

JF M wrote:

I don’t climb hard enough to wear shoes that hurt. Even when I was climbing my hardest (11 on a good day) I was wearing comfy kicks - and I promise you that my shoes were not the limiting factor.  If you can’t walk in them without pain they’re not the right size.
edit: “walk” meaning from the wall to the bench. 

Thanks for contributing. I think at this point I agree. I can't see shoes being a very limiting factor to my climbing at this point, and my technique is going to limit myself more than the shoes. Though, a TC Pro on a bouldering wall does kinda suck haha.

Thanks again.

Victor Machtel wrote:

I went from a pair of Mythos at first (too big and stretchy) to a pair of Skwamas (too small and aggressive for what I do). If shoes are too uncomfortable you won't be able to climb in them even remotely well, because  you will be preoccupied with the pain. 

Then I bought a pair of small but comfortable Scarpa Thunder and they have been my go to gym shoe. Small enough for precision but comfortable enough for extended sessions. They are about to die so I'm looking for a replacement. 

Most recently I bought a pair of Katana Laces in the same sizes that I had for the Mythos. They are great for what you describe. I find them very comfortable and very capable at steep and slightly overhanging stuff and I can even slab in them now that I have broken them in a bit. 

Thanks for contributing. Looking forward to trying Miura's, and would have loved to try out a pair of Katana's but am having a difficult time sourcing them. I think La Sportiva is releasing a new iteration of the Katana???

But your review has my interest piqued. Thanks.

Yeah, they are being updated. I saw them on some websites already although not yet available. 

Victor Machtel wrote:

Yeah, they are being updated. I saw them on some websites already although not yet available. 

Likewise. Hopefully it's a welcomed update. Maybe I'll hold out from buying Miura's (that I have shipping to my local REI currently) to try on the new Katana...

I'm not climbing super hard these days, but interestingly: I have really come to like the Tarantulace for all types of climbing. Even more so since I went to buy a new pair and they didn't have my size in men's. I decided to try the women's version just so I could hopefully walk out with a pair of shoes. I was able to size up a half size and I am happier than ever. Toes less smashed because the women's version fit me better. As far as I am concerned, those shoes get it done.