Headlamps for alpine climbing 2019

Stever wrote:

Anyone try the new HM65R-T? Has both the flood and spot beam and combined 1500 lumens

https://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-hm65r-t-trail-running-led-headlamp/

I use my headlamp for running as well and this one seems like it could fit multiple purposes…

I have the older version - I think the only difference is the headstrap, which I think I'd appreciate more than the one that comes with mine. It's a lot of light! Trails here are really technical and rocky, so I appreciate the amount of light it throws. No real complains, as long as you don't mind the weight (I don't). Great light for everything except hanging out in camp (no red light). It's what I used as a replacement for my Zebralight, which I lost. That thing was giving me a ton of problems, though.

Petzl actik core user. And honestly, I love it. Bright enough, light enough, has red, and a rechargeable battery that can be replaced with 3 AAA’s. And so my AAA’s aren’t like loose change in my pocket, I put 3 in the correct orientation to go in the head lamp and toss a wrap or two of electrical tape on them. Then it’s one unit out, one unit in. When it’s time to change them in the field.

Edit: been using it consistently for 3 years at least.

A small backpacking headlamp you use mostly in camp - like the Petzl actik core is a fine thing, but those Petzl rechargeable batteries are still my main gripe about that headlamp. To recharge, you have to take them out of the headlamp; to get a second it's $30 - and proprietary, so very hard to find at random. It's the razorblade model, which I don't think works well for Petzl, since everyone like you just uses three, one-time AAA's if they need a backup - what even is the point of that rechargeable battery? I had one of the old Reactiv headlamps from Petzl, and it had a lot of great qualities, except that stupid proprietary battery pack, which just had a 18650 battery inside with a bunch of electronics and $52 price increase. 

If you want the headlamp and a spare battery, all of a sudden something like the HM65R gets really competitive in price to the Petzl actik core and is just a way more brighter, more flexible headlamp. I'm not sure if I understand, "bright enough". If you're headlamp can now perform in ways others can't, you all of a sudden use it for different tasks. For me, it's good piece of mind. Say I've fallen, I'm injured, I'm trying to signal someone using a headtorch. Whaddayawant: save $30 and have a light that's a little lighter and a whole less brighter, or do you want a light that throws out 3x the lumens? 

Encourage you to do your own tests, though - here are unedited pictures of the 300 lumen version of the Petzl actik core on high: 

And the Zebralight H600w Mk IV (1400 lumens) on high: 

Well someone was listening - the new Fenix now has a red light - I haven't looked at all the specs to compare but here it is, 

https://www.fenixlighting.com/product/fenix-hm60r-rechargeable-headlamp/

20% off using, NEWMEMBER2021

Long Ranger wrote:

Well someone was listening - the new Fenix now has a red light - I haven't looked at all the specs to compare but here it is, 

https://www.fenixlighting.com/product/fenix-hm60r-rechargeable-headlamp/

20% off using, NEWMEMBER2021

Hopefully the 60 didnt take as much of a hit on battery life as the 50. 

Will Haden wrote:

Hopefully the 60 didnt take as much of a hit on battery life as the 50. 

Me too, but it is really hard to compare between lights. Here's the older, HM65R specs, 

And here's the new M60R specs,

The modes are set to different lumens, but also are shown to throw at a different distances. For example, 

"low" on the  HM65R is 50 lumens/90hours/121 feet.
"low" on the  M60R is  30 lumens/54hours/59 feet. 

Which makes the M60R look really terrible. But the modes are different. HM65R is on, "spotlight" mode. OK, I know what that is - there's flood, and there's a spot. WTF is, "General Mode" and, "Functional Mode"? Think this is shoddy copywriting - "General" Sould be, "Spotlight" mode, since "General" isn't used anywhere else. "Functional Mode" must be "Flood". Still not looking good. 

The diff in runtime and lumens being thrown is still so weirdly different. Perhaps it's the different standards being used? ANSI/FSC vs ANSI/PLATO FL1. Can't say I know what the difference is. 

Fenix does state that the M60R is an upgrade to the HL60R, not the HM65R and it does seem that comparing those two, this one does give better performance. Man I dunno. Pretty hard to decipher. Love to get my hands on all these to test. 

And what is the stride frequency sensor they refer to? Does it change output based on running cadence? That doesn't sound desirable at all. I can't actually think of a useful purpose for a stride sensor in a headlamp. 

2 years since I posted in this thread...

> Anyone have a climbing anecdote where something over 300 lumens would make or break the climb or vastly improve safety?

I helped some folks at Red Rock Canyon NCA bail off Spectrum to the right of Birdland. They were bailing in the worst possible way and one of them even had a pretty shitty pendulum fall. Eventually a helicopter was called... but that is besides the point. They couldn't see shit and I had to point out things with my headlamp. I had a Nitecore HC50 and could illuminate anything of importance. Its heavy, so I don't use it anymore unless I'm working on home improvement projects or auto repair.

Unpopular opinion: Nitecore is what Fenix wishes it could be. Every time I look at Fenix's offerings I'm amazed how many years behind Nitecore they are.

I now keep at Nitecore NU25 with shock cord mod in my chalkbag pocket. Super light, roughly 3 AAA capacity equivalent of battery onboard, but way lighter. Micro USB rechargable. More functional brightness level spacing than the Petzl Bindi in my opinion. Cheaper, brighter, lighter (with shock cord mod). I like it so much I bought a second to keep in my trail running / light hiking vest.

I ended up finally getting not one, but two Zebralights.
H600Fd Mk IV -- Floody high CRI (reflector, but frosted glass)
H604d Mk IV -- Pure Flood high CRI (zero reflector, just a fat LED close to the glass to cast a wide even cone of light)

I have not used either for climbing... I have not really had a need to yet, the Nitecore NU25 has been totally sufficient for everything I have been doing lately, where I mostly know the routes already, approaches, descents. I'll probably retire my Nitecore HC50 and use the floody Zebralight instead. Downside is lack of red light and battery indicator (I think...Zebralight has soooo many config menu settings I wouldn't be surprised if it had a batt check too). Side note for anyone considering one of the Zebralight 18650 models, make sure you get unprotected cells with ~10A capable output. Protected and protected with micro USB charging on the side of the cell all have lower output and problematic (+) end shape, basically the light will brightly flash on and off, then wont turn on again until you unscrew and re-screw the tail cap. You can long press and turn it on to low to medium modes still, but its far from ideal.

The pure flood Zebralight model is AMAZING for trail running if you mount it at the waist and have it in a medium-high setting. I made a fixture to slip into a Flip Belt running belt similar to their own light, but just used a piece of stiff plastic with some holes drilled into it, some neoprene glued to it, and some zip ties to hold the light on. Zero hotspot with the pure flood model, so there is no real bounce to the light to distract your eyes like there is with regular lights. Also, since it is at waist level it casts nice shadows that make it much easier to see rocks vs using a headlamp. The high CRI is a great plus for color of vegetation, rocks, poop... I had originally tried the waist mount idea with the regular floody/frosted Zebralight and the bounce was tolerable on flat sections of trails, but too much bounce when going downhill... and I was doing these experiments with aspirations to do the Rim2Rim2Rim, so there would be significant running downhill in the dark involved. For that I would take 1 spare battery in a sweatproof case.

I modified the headstrap that came with my NU25 to be the same functionally as the "Nite Ize Headband Flashlight Holder" and I can slide either Zebralight into that. I kinda prefer it to having the additional over the top of the head strap. I can also put it at its widest put it around my waist. Nice to have the option.

Anybody have any issues with a HM-65R or 65R-T on a Sirocco helmet? Saw a recent Tyler Karow vid where his buddy was rocking a 65R-T on a Sirocco and it didn't look wobbly. Not sure how much weight you can put at the front before it starts to get annoying (my helmet is in the mail, so can't test yet). 

The lightest 18650 headlamps are zebralight, and something called the D25 headlamp. They both weight around 4.25 oz battery and headstrap included. That light weight makes a huge difference balance wise on an ultralight helmet.

The D25 is a chinese brand headlamp which puts out an honest 1000+ lumens in tests. It is pretty reliable as its so simple. It also has usb charging.

You do need to use some plastic tie straps though to retain it in its plastic holder for climbing. And a bit of seam seal for the bezel.

The best part? It costs $20-25 dollars shipped with a battery to the USA!

Some people might question a cheap chinese headlamp, fair enough. But before you judge, check out the videos and reviews on it. Theres quite a few threads and videos on it by flashaholics.

Here's one:

https://youtu.be/8kYe4FI8Znk

Javinder Bains wrote:

The lightest 18650 headlamps are zebralight, and something called the D25 headlamp. They both weight around 4.25 oz battery and headstrap included. That light weight makes a huge difference balance wise on an ultralight helmet.

The D25 is a chinese brand headlamp which puts out an honest 1000+ lumens in tests. It is pretty reliable as its so simple. It also has usb charging.

You do need to use some plastic tie straps though to retain it in its plastic holder for climbing. And a bit of seam seal for the bezel.

The best part? It costs $20-25 dollars shipped with a battery to the USA!

Some people might question a cheap chinese headlamp, fair enough. But before you judge, check out the videos and reviews on it. Theres quite a few threads and videos on it by flashaholics.

Here's one:

https://youtu.be/8kYe4FI8Znk

Very interesting... I can't easily get the Zebralight in Canada or for a reasonable price. This sounds like a good alternative. Sounds like the D25S is the newer version

I also just got the Fenix HM65R-T since it has the wide beam and spot beam to try out for trail running 

Javinder Bains wrote:

The lightest 18650 headlamps are zebralight, and something called the D25 headlamp. They both weight around 4.25 oz battery and headstrap included. That light weight makes a huge difference balance wise on an ultralight helmet.

4.25 oz is NOT that lightweight. I just weighed the Petzl Actik Core, and it is 81g or 2.9 oz, battery and strap included.

Fenix HM65R-T is 92g/3.42 oz.

Terry E wrote:

4.25 oz is NOT that lightweight. I just weighed the Petzl Actik Core, and it is 81g or 2.9 oz, battery and strap included.

Fenix HM65R-T is 92g/3.42 oz.

The actik core uses a proprietary 1250 mAh battery, or 3 AAA cells. Neither has the energy capacity of the 2200 or 3000 mAh standard 18650 batteries that come with the D25S. That matters for runtimes. Not to mention you can get 3500 mAh 18650 batteries if you want to maximize your weight to runtime ratio.

The weight you listed for the HM65R-T does not include the battery which adds another 49 grams.

With the battery it will weight 140g or ~5 oz.

^ Thanks for your comments, Javinder!

Stever wrote:

Very interesting... I can't easily get the Zebralight in Canada or for a reasonable price. This sounds like a good alternative. Sounds like the D25S is the newer version

I also just got the Fenix HM65R-T since it has the wide beam and spot beam to try out for trail running 

The D25S has dual SST40 emitters which means you get both flood and a decent amount of throw.

IMO this makes it perfect for climbing as you want the flood for actual climbing and some throw for route finding.

You can get beamshots here:

https://youtu.be/aLXnhTkl0F0

The nice thing about the D25S is that they are cheap enough that you can always keep one in the car or the pack as a backup, for when your partner forgets their headlamp.

Even if you don't use it climbing, I guarantee you will use it around the house.

For $30.00; 3 solid Duracell headlamps with great light… 550 lumens, single, zone, red lights.  cant go wrong.  

Zach Francis wrote:

Anybody have any issues with a HM-65R or 65R-T on a Sirocco helmet? Saw a recent Tyler Karow vid where his buddy was rocking a 65R-T on a Sirocco and it didn't look wobbly. Not sure how much weight you can put at the front before it starts to get annoying (my helmet is in the mail, so can't test yet). 

I have a fenix hm61r (similar weight) and it’s definitely pretty noticeable on a sirocco, but not unstable. Annoyingly, the shock cord petzl uses to secure the headlamp in the back doesn’t play nicely with the top strap of the headlamp.

Just ordered a D25s because of this thread, excited for using it for bouldering season. 

Had a bit of time off so I put together a overview/review/mods of the D25 series headlamps.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/121795106/d25-series-headlamp-overview-review-and-mods

Javinder Bains wrote:

Had a bit of time off so I put together a overview/review/mods of the D25 series headlamps.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/121795106/d25-series-headlamp-overview-review-and-mods

Is this your company, Javinder? Do you work for them?