Cloud Ladder Via Ferrata The Future!

John RB wrote:

The climber in me looks at all of the rock surrounding these ladder rungs and thinks that it looks like some nice 5.11 climbing that will never be born now. 

Does anyone know where exactly in Estes Park this contraption is?

According to their web site it is on Deville Rocks north of the Cheley Camp but I can't tell if it is public or private land. I'm guessing it is public land with private access.

https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105744349/deville-rocks

I would be interested in knowing whether the via ferrata is on public or private land and, if it is on public land, whether access is controlled because the only feasible way to get to Deville Rocks is by crossing Camp Cheley or whether KMAC has a concession from RMNP or the Forest Service that allows them to restrict access.

PRRose wrote:

I would be interested in knowing whether the via ferrata is on public or private land and, if it is on public land, whether access is controlled because the only feasible way to get to Deville Rocks is by crossing Camp Cheley or whether KMAC has a concession from RMNP or the Forest Service that allows them to restrict access.

That is my question too, their website notes they are an NPS concessionaire and they show a Forest Service logo, but no details. From what I can tell they picked a pretty low impact location for these, but it's not very transparent!

PRRose wrote:

I would be interested in knowing whether the via ferrata is on public or private land and, if it is on public land, whether access is controlled because the only feasible way to get to Deville Rocks is by crossing Camp Cheley or whether KMAC has a concession from RMNP or the Forest Service that allows them to restrict access.

this is an interesting point. deville, as far as i can tell, is on the border of USFS land and you can approach from the lilly lake TH without going through the camp. soooo, if this is indeed true, how can they stop the public from climbing the VF? 

At least one ski resort comes to mind that is built on public land but can prohibit you from touring under certain circumstances. Similarly, a place like the Grand Teton is public, but you still need a permit to camp there.

Not here to defend anything in particular, just food for thought. Public land isn't necessarily an on/off switch, and we're already subject to certain access restrictions of varying degrees of annoyance

Full Time KMAC guide here.   

Deville is accessed through Cheley Camp, to get to it from lily lake would be a long awful approach for what DeVille has to offer. I've been guiding at this crag for long before the via Ferrata existed and from my understanding when the developers of it came up with the idea they approached Cheley camps about the idea and they also did an in depth look at the property lines in the area. They found the cliff was on Cheley property and not forest service, and after that began construction. (I haven't personally looked at these maps or questioned it, the people who built it are pillars of the Estes climbing community and I trust them.) 

Recreational climbers used to be allowed to access DeVille from Cheley Camp property by simply checking in at the office and then hiking up. Part of the deal with building the via Ferrata is that Cheley would restrict access to guided only because of the liability surrounding the via Ferrata on their property to my understanding. 

When rec climbers could access the cliff I think I saw maybe 4 parties a summer total, it was not a very popular destination and rightfully so, it is generally poor rock quality on 5.8 jug hauls across the entire formation. That said there are some really quality lines, that no one ever came out to climb. And as well under the via Ferrata were lines that the people who made the via Ferrata had bolted themselves at first. So they covered up their own routes with this, not any of the historic routes.  I thought these routes were quite good, but no one ever climbed them and they never cleaned up well. This crag was heavily developed for climbing before the via Ferrata, by the same people who made the via Ferrata, but it never gained any popularity, except by the guides that would stick around after work for some pitches. Honestly, the cliff is a really good candidate for putting a via Ferrata on as it sees little to no traffic, doesn't have much historical significance, was generally poor surface rock quality and had seen hardly any development. No one is trying to go build these on a cliff such as The Book or up the diamond or something. It was on a cliff that even Estes locals had hardly heard of or visited. 

No one is padding their pockets with this thing. It's marginally profitable for any of the involved parties. And as a guide I can sure tell you I'm not padding my pocket with it. It's just another product we offer and the cost reflects below industry standard pricing for a day with an AMGA certified guide. 

Howdy Dom,

I've been curious about Deville Rocks for awhile but haven't gone due to the access issues. So is still possible to contact Cheley for access? Also, I'd be curious as what part of the cliff is on private property and what isnt. Basically,  how do I avoid the private property to climb legally on that formation.  Gillett makes mention of private access but that the cliffs are all public, so it's a bit unclear to me.

HughC wrote:

Howdy Dom,

I've been curious about Deville Rocks for awhile but haven't gone due to the access issues. So is still possible to contact Cheley for access? Also, I'd be curious as what part of the cliff is on private property and what isnt. Basically,  how do I avoid the private property to climb legally on that formation.  Gillett makes mention of private access but that the cliffs are all public, so it's a bit unclear to me.

Cheley won't allow access to the public anymore, and since the main DeVille 3 formation is on their property, climbing on it would be trespassing even if accessed from public lands. To get there without crossing private property would involve a pretty arduous bushwhack around the NW shoulder of Twin Sisters. Which in my opinion would be a hell of a lot of work for a chossy chunk of rock that doesn't have any views of the diamond. 

Dom,

Thank you, sir!