Who is/was the purest climber?

Trevor Taylor wrote:

A frat house you can silence whenever you want…

Granted, that's true. I've never muted anyone on any social media platform and I guess I still can't really believe how a bunch of mostly adults try to one up one another with trolling and derailing sincere threads with sick burns and ironic pubescent humor. Maybe one day I'll come to terms with it and just block or not pay attention to the worst offenders, but I figured pointing out that it's unfunny and lame might be worth a shot. 

The purest style is always, naked, chalkless, shoeless, on-sight, first ascent, free solo.  Anything else is cheating.

Ricky Harline wrote:

I endeavor to not be an asshole, and I am skeptical that I was one here. You weren't being sincere with this thread and I'm not going to pretend that you were. I'm aware that many here find these dumb threads amusing but I find them juvenile and tiresome. 

It feels like living next to a frat house. 

Since there is a chance you are in part at least sincere in your question: 

I think of climbing as both a sport and non sport activity. Most of the time I am enjoying it as not a sport, and just appreciate the challenge and movement. Sometimes I take it as a serious sport, and strictly follow the rules of the send. Other times I make even stricter rules for myself-- for example I have led many routes at Castle Rock with a crash pad that I would otherwise stick clip, since stick clipping the first bolt of Puckered Starfish for example means you're on top rope for half the route. 

Ultimately the only thing that matters is that you're honest about what you did and how you did it. Sometimes I care about th style of the ascent, but often I don't. I think aid climbing a wall is in an important sense a more pure style since it represents venturing off into the unknown and having an adventure that it so often removed from modern climbing, so in which sense the climbing is "more pure" is totally subjective and there many different axes an ascent could be measured on. 

Ultimately I think this conversation is only slightly less dumb than that tier list of the different types of climbing a kid made recently. People should climb in whatever way is the most fun to them, and if they're worried about whether or not others think it's pure or not then it sounds like they have some insecurity problems and should see a therapist. 

Wasn't your first comment intended to be a "sick burn"?

I'm just asking who the community thinks has the greatest style or purity of climbing. I am inspired by those who go above and beyond in pursuit of perfection, aren't you?

Kudos to duncan for the Paul Pruess link. Also Jim Erickson is an excellent suggestion.

Pursuing perfection would mean tying your laces up in a way they can't touch the ground. 

Otherwise, not doing so is just saying " Look at me. I'm so cool I start over because my lace touched the ground. So pure".

Tradiban wrote:

It's ok Ricky, I know you're not an asshole in real life.

Do you have any "purity" rules in your climbing?

@Kristian

Is an endeavor inherently supported by the mere presence of a film crew?

It is supported unless he has no contact with them. No conversations, no words of encouragement. You get the gist.

Ricky Harline wrote:

I still can't really believe how a bunch of mostly adults try to one up one another with trolling and derailing sincere threads 

In my defense I dont think I derail threads or at least that is never my goal.

with sick burns and ironic pubescent humor.

I don't really understand what is wrong with pubescent humor. I don't think mountain project should be held to a country club standard or my mothers standard or really any standard beyond simply being helpful. There is one rule here which is to not be a jerk. 

Also climbing is at best a pubescent hobby. We are a bunch of people essentially humping rocks, naming them, fighting over them, and giving them grades. We then create what is essentially a mega family fun center and spend our time training at what is no more than a really tall chucky cheese.

 Maybe one day I'll come to terms with it and just block or not pay attention to the worst offenders, but I figured pointing out that it's unfunny and lame might be worth a shot. 

We all have different things that amuse us, I do hope you take this energy and heckle Amy Schumer. 

Back to the topic, I think the purest climber definitely is impossible to classify because they won't spray about anything ever. 

The purest climber is the one having the least fun

Some folks are into philosophy, some play music, some people like laughing, some like being sticks in the mud.

Pat Light wrote:

gecko

• environmentally friendly insect diet
• no shoes, chalk, harness, rope
• never climbs the same rig twice
• almost always a first ascent
• super off the radar. too small even to register on radar. can't operate social media
• talented enough to climb anywhere but chooses to reduce carbon setae-print by only climbing within walking distance of home
• v. cute

Maybe before it sold its pure soul to car insurance

Pat Light wrote:

gecko

• environmentally friendly insect diet
• no shoes, chalk, harness, rope
• never climbs the same rig twice
• almost always a first ascent
• super off the radar. too small even to register on radar. can't operate social media
• talented enough to climb anywhere but chooses to reduce carbon setae-print by only climbing within walking distance of home
• v. cute

I know a climber who fits nearly all of that. If he does go out with a partner, he doesn't let people he climbs with take chalk. That's for pussies. 70 year old man, total badass, definitely got a screw loose.

 I'm positive he eats bugs too. 

I'm not sure if Tradiban threads warrant a serious response, so I may be wasting my time.

Instead of checking boxes, I would go to what makes us human.

At our core, we are problem solvers.  Analog computers.  If you can believe that.  Mammals excel at this, at least in ways our brains can most easily relate, but humans more so.  We solve, optimize, perfect, even when we don't understand that is, in fact, what we are doing.

Music.

Climbing, in its purest form, is perhaps, most like music.

Anyone can pick up some sheet music and trudge his way through it.  But, to pick up some music, play it through, on sight, and hit everything just right, there is an intrinsic satisfaction in that ... even if nobody else ever hears it.  Because it resonates with the core of what we are.  How we got here.  

In it's purest form, everything drops away in climbing, and you are flowing with the route.  The rope becomes invisible to the mind.  If there is no rope, that absence of the rope becomes invisible.  It all just drops away.  Everything that weighed on your heart, everything that burdened your shoulders, it falls to a world away.  Every move is right; the motion, fluid, position, effortless; the world, distant. Your partner, only a rope length, but seemingly a whole world, away.  It's just you.  And, if it truly is just you, that dreadful isolation, that worry, it all just drops away.  Evaporates.  It's just you, and motion, and this primal satisfaction of perfection.  Even if it is the perfection of the useless.

In this sense, we can all be the purest climber.  I hope that we have all been there at some point.  A fleeting moment.  Perhaps beyond articulation.  And perhaps, a moment we can spend the rest our lives trying catch again.  Maybe again and again.  Maybe never again.  But, we carry that ephemeral feeling of perfection with us in that pursuit.

I wanted to comment, but the thread seemed to spiral down the drain (sorry to say - as usual). But, thanks to Jason L above it regained worthy reading.

In its purest form, everything drops away in climbing, and you are flowing with the route.  The rope becomes invisible to the mind.  If there is no rope, that absence of the rope becomes invisible.  It all just drops away.  Everything that weighed on your heart, everything that burdened your shoulders, it falls to a world away.  It’s just you.  And, if it truly is just you, that dreadful isolation, that worry, it all just drops away.  Evaporates.  It‘s just you, and motion, and this primal satisfaction of perfection.  Even if it is the perfection of the useless. 

And Duncan from London UK guided us to Wikipedia for a piece of history about a remarkable individual;  Paul Preuss.  You can tell that Duncan has had some experience in the real world of climbing - a lifetime of it, and respects the history climbing is built on.

The Wikipedia piece referenced is a great summary of his short life.  Messner was so taken by him that he wrote his biography and referred to him throughout his life. 

Paul Preuss first came to my attention in 1974 when I was smitten by a short bio and pic of Preuss in Big Wall Climbing by British climber Doug K Scott.  It was a whole new reality for me!

Preuss was in the tradition of Georg Winkler and Emil Zsigmondy - meaning a completely pure and unassisted style.  Preuss would also downclimbed most of his great routes of the day - some still respectfully hard.

So thanks to Duncan and Jason L for putting this thread back on track!  I’m happy to have done what small thing I could do for these hero's of mine!

Parachute Adams wrote:

Pursuing perfection would mean tying your laces up in a way they can't touch the ground. 

Otherwise, not doing so is just saying " Look at me. I'm so cool I start over because my lace touched the ground. So pure".

I believe the shoelace line in the article was simply a figure of speech from a layman to demonstrate Sherman's dedication.

Thank you to Jason L.and RKM for your contributions.

How about current climbers, are there any young guns going above and beyond for purity?

Sam D wrote:

The purest style is always, naked, chalkless, shoeless, on-sight, first ascent, free solo.  Anything else is cheating.

So….  Austin Howell???

“A frequent free soloist, Howell had free soloed over seventeen 5.12s across the Southeast; he onsight-soloed Caternary Crack (5.10b) in Devil's Lake, Wisconsin, and soloed Twinkie (5.12a) at the Red River Gorge and Bottled Up Warrior (5.12b) at Foster Falls, Tenessee, and Dalai Llama (5.12c) in Denny Cove, Tennessee.”

Austin Howell free solos Dopey Duck 5.9 at Shortoff, barefoot and naked!

Tradiban wrote:

I believe the shoelace line in the article was simply a figure of speech from a layman to demonstrate Sherman's dedication.

Thank you to Jason L.and RKM for your contributions.

How about current climbers, are there any young guns going above and beyond for purity?

Why specify "young guns"? RKM immediately came to my mind, first.

And the cliff chipmunks at City of Rocks. They outclimb even RKM. 

But, sure. The people who solo up, wingsuit off.

All those "ascents" you never hear about, on no name routes because there aren't any "routes" on peaks with just a number, hiked into after getting the Tacoma as far as it goes. The only backup is mom being told what day/time to call 911.

The  bored 10 year olds who played on the boulders at our local bouldering area, adjacent the Snake river...10,000 years ago.

Adulthood is way overrated.

:-)

Two pages and no mention of Hot Henry yet?   Barber has to be a top 5 contender for this "title".

Herb and Jan Conn climbed in a very enviable style for decades, certainly deserving of an honorable mention.

Parachute Adams wrote:

It is supported unless he has no contact with them. No conversations, no words of encouragement. You get the gist.

It may still be "supported" with a film crew but it's pretty damn "pure" to make them return an item to the spot it was dropped. 

Hat tip to the Henry Barber suggestion. 

Anyone have a favorite "purity rule" they can share, their own or someone else's.

Purity is overrated. 

I recall hearing of some early climber whose name escapes me that considered any climb that relied on mechanical descent (rappelling as opposed to a walkoff or downclimb) to be invalid by the rules of free climbing. It's a purist perspective I don't agree with, but I certainly respect.