Best Drill?

Joe Hunt wrote:

I'll bet if you calculated the ratio of holes per 4AH battery for the two drills, it would move the weight benefit more towards the Dewalt. This doesn't matter if you are only placing a few bolts, but if you start carrying extra batteries, then the M12 starts to look less attractive.

If the Dewalt gets 16 3/8x4" holes in whatever stone, and the battery weighs 16 oz, then you are getting 1 hole per oz of battery.
If the Milwaukee gets 8 3/8x4" holes in whatever stone, and the battery weighs 10z, then you are getting .8 holes per oz of battery.

This is pure speculation with made up numbers. I would be curious to see what the actual numbers are.

The M12 is best with the 6ah battery and weighs 4lbs 7oz. It gets 15 +/- 3/8”x4 holes in good granite. You should use the slotted tip bits not the new fancy X tip bits. The X tip bits dont perform well with these limited power drills. More friction and a less concentrated strike durring hammering. 

Man, I eat 2 lbs for breakfast, just not worth it to me to have the little drill.

If you're new to bolting go big! My first was a swedish Pionjar. Way cool!

I'm posting onto this thread that is approx a year old.  I don't want to belabor the topic by starting a new thread when this particular topic seems to resurrect itself regularly.

I'm considering replacing my drill, a Hilti TE-10A with a bootleg lead acid 36V battery.  I've reviewed comments in past MP forums on this topic and i've shopped on Amazon and eBay.  What is perhaps new to the topic since the last post in this thread is that there are currently several 18-20V hammer drills sourced from asia and offered on amazon and eBay at prices well under American, German, Czech, and Japanese products.  The price-to-value question is one thing i've been considering.  Specifically though, because of circumstance and not by choice, i am a few products deep in the Ryobi line (which includes two 4 ampH One+ and two 2 ampH One+ batteries).  

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with the Ryobi P222 One+ 18V SDS Rotary Hammer Drill?  Considering the specs, all i've turned up is motor rotation speed for this tool (1300 rpm), which is below that of most premium brand drills.  I haven't seen any data for how hard the tool hits when it hammers or any other technicals.  But if i can get one of these for a little over $100 and also pick up a 5ampH battery all for less than $200, that seems like a pretty good deal, when compared to the asian knock-offs.  

My question is.....has anyone used this tool for climbing anchor installation in medium density to very dense stone?  If so, how has it performed? 

 

bernard wolfe wrote:

I'm posting onto this thread that is approx a year old.  I don't want to belabor the topic by starting a new thread when this particular topic seems to resurrect itself regularly.

I'm considering replacing my drill, a Hilti TE-10A with a bootleg lead acid 36V battery.  I've reviewed comments in past MP forums on this topic and i've shopped on Amazon and eBay.  What is perhaps new to the topic since the last post in this thread is that there are currently several 18-20V hammer drills sourced from asia and offered on amazon and eBay at prices well under American, German, Czech, and Japanese products.  The price-to-value question is one thing i've been considering.  Specifically though, because of circumstance and not by choice, i am a few products deep in the Ryobi line (which includes two 4 ampH One+ and two 2 ampH One+ batteries).  

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with the Ryobi P222 One+ 18V SDS Rotary Hammer Drill?  Considering the specs, all i've turned up is motor rotation speed for this tool (1300 rpm), which is below that of most premium brand drills.  I haven't seen any data for how hard the tool hits when it hammers or any other technicals.  But if i can get one of these for a little over $100 and also pick up a 5ampH battery all for less than $200, that seems like a pretty good deal, when compared to the asian knock-offs.  

My question is.....has anyone used this tool for climbing anchor installation in medium density to very dense stone?  If so, how has it performed? 

 

That's a terrible deal.

CPO outlets for a refurbished Bosch if you are counting pennies. Truly, this is an area where you want to scrape together that additional $50-100 to get something that has the oomph for 1/2" if needed and is better built to last.

For a bargain I always tout my Dewalt that handles 1/2" with ease  (trust me, you want this capability as it makes 3/8" holes like butter):

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-20-Volt-MAX-Cordless-Brushless-1-in-SDS-Plus-D-Handle-Concrete-Masonry-Rotary-Hammer-Tool-Only-DCH133B/300753220

You can get aftermarket batteries for it that work fine. So for ~$300 you get a vastly more capable and durable tool than the Ryobi.

Absolutely stay away from anything below Makita/Bosch/Dewalt/Milwaukee quality. Its just not worth it to buy an underpowered cheap drill for this task.

I burned out a Ryobi on the rock.  It’s a good home improvement tool but is junk on the rock.  I went from that to getting top of the line and have no regrets.

Battery: 18V

Chuck: SDS-Plus

No Load Speed: 0-1,300 PRM

BPM: 0-5,000

Impact Energy: 1.2 Joules

Tool Weight: 3.65 lbs.

https://www.ryobitools.ca/products/details/18v-one-plus-sds-plus-rotary-hammer-drill

Tool me 2 second to find the info.

bernard wolfe wrote:

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with the Ryobi P222 One+ 18V SDS Rotary Hammer Drill?  Considering the specs, all i've turned up is motor rotation speed for this tool (1300 rpm), which is below that of most premium brand drills.  I haven't seen any data for how hard the tool hits when it hammers or any other technicals.  But if i can get one of these for a little over $100 and also pick up a 5ampH battery all for less than $200, that seems like a pretty good deal, when compared to the asian knock-offs.  

My question is.....has anyone used this tool for climbing anchor installation in medium density to very dense stone?  If so, how has it performed? 

 

if you’re going to go Ryobi, I’d get the new P223. It’s brushless so you’ll get more from each battery, and it’s rated for 1” holes so it’ll do better for 1/2” holes. It’s basically the same drill as the Miluakee M18 drill.

https://www.ryobitools.ca/products/details/18v-one-plus-hp-brushless-1-sds-plus-rotary-hammer

hillbilly hijinks wrote:

That's a terrible deal.

CPO outlets for a refurbished Bosch if you are counting pennies. Truly, this is an area where you want to scrape together that additional $50-100 to get something that has the oomph for 1/2" if needed and is better built to last.

For a bargain I always tout my Dewalt that handles 1/2" with ease  (trust me, you want this capability as it makes 3/8" holes like butter):

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-20-Volt-MAX-Cordless-Brushless-1-in-SDS-Plus-D-Handle-Concrete-Masonry-Rotary-Hammer-Tool-Only-DCH133B/300753220

You can get aftermarket batteries for it that work fine. So for ~$300 you get a vastly more capable and durable tool than the Ryobi.

Absolutely stay away from anything below Makita/Bosch/Dewalt/Milwaukee quality. Its just not worth it to buy an underpowered cheap drill for this task.

thanks for the solid advice.  

I'm curious, you favor the Dewalt DHC133 model.  Why not the DHC273?  It seems more compact.  Do you find the 133 decent enough to handle?.....not sort of ungangly?  I've only ever used the Hilti tool for installing climbing anchors and it is similar to a Bosch Bulldog in that it is somewhat compact.  I see that between the 133 and 273 there is some obvious savings in the price difference and thats a plus, of course.  Most, if not all of anchors i've installed or will install will be from aid positions or on rappel, so the extended consideration of ergonomics and weight with respect to installing anchors while leading won't apply to me.

I see now that the Ryobi tool is a 1/2-inch size and i didn't catch that when i initially posted.  Yours and the other responder's comments make sense in that regard.

I would agree. Ryobi tools are marginally cheaper but over time the extra 100 or so dollars for higher quality will pay for itself. It’s not too different from buying quality climbing shoes, clothing gear etc…

I have had really bad experiences with third party batteries. Buy a used 18v Bosch or really any of the other reputable brands. I still love my m12 but it’s a little weak for 1/2 inch holes in granite. 

I’ve used an L-handle Dewalt (probably the dhc133) and it was a pain when notching/countersinking holes for Fixe glue-ins. The compact handle drills are much better for that. If you never do those, the ergonomic differences may not matter as much

Milwaukee fuel m18 is a savage.  Same company owns dewalt and Milwakee.... specs on both 18v drills are darn similar. The 20v thing from dewalt is marketing...its 18v nominal just like the m18.
Dewalt batts can fit Milwaukee with a small mod.
http://ruislipsigns.com/2019/06/03/can-i-use-a-dewalt-battery-on-a-milwaukee-tool/

I personally use the m18 Milwaukee and have never had issues. the thing EATS..... Depending on the rock and how used my bits are I get 15-30 holes a full charge. 

The M12 is amazing for bolting on lead.

my 2 pennies.

Curtis Baird wrote:

I burned out a Ryobi on the rock.  It’s a good home improvement tool but is junk on the rock.  I went from that to getting top of the line and have no regrets.

I also had a cheap Ryobi P222.  It worked fine for intermittent use on rock.  But under sustained use (2 4AH batteries in 30 minutes) the motor burned up.  The cooling is quite inadequate for sustained use.   Hopefully the P223 improved this.

In regards to the Milwaukee M18 - there are at least five different SDS-Plus models.    The 1.12 inch 2715 is more heavy duty than needed.

Brand new preorder is the 2912  1inch, 2 ft-lbs,  weighs 6.8 lbs.    The old 2712  1 inch model was 1.7 ft-lbs.

Old models M18   5/8 inch model 2612  weighs 5.5 lbs,  1 ft-lb   (the M12  2416  is likely better and lighter, but you need 12V batteries.)

7/8 inch non-Fuel  old model 2605 weighed 6.27 lbs, 1.7 ft-lb

tom donnelly wrote:

I also had a cheap Ryobi P222.  It worked fine for intermittent use on rock.  But under sustained use (2 4AH batteries in 30 minutes) the motor burned up.  The cooling is quite inadequate for sustained use.   Hopefully the P223 improved this.

In regards to the Milwaukee M18 - there are at least five different SDS-Plus models.    The 1.12 inch 2715 is more heavy duty than needed.

Brand new preorder is the 2912  1inch, 2 ft-lbs,  weighs 6.8 lbs.    The old 2712  1 inch model was 1.7 ft-lbs.

Old models M18   5/8 inch model 2612  weighs 5.5 lbs,  1 ft-lb   (the M12  2416  is likely better and lighter, but you need 12V batteries.)

7/8 inch non-Fuel  old model 2605 weighed 6.27 lbs, 1.7 ft-lb

Great detail about Milwaukee and the variations of the m18. Tool companies marketing departments suck on purpose im sure. But for the record, my post reflects the 2712 model.

bernard wolfe wrote:

thanks for the solid advice.  

I'm curious, you favor the Dewalt DHC133 model.  Why not the DHC273?  It seems more compact.  Do you find the 133 decent enough to handle?.....not sort of ungangly?  I've only ever used the Hilti tool for installing climbing anchors and it is similar to a Bosch Bulldog in that it is somewhat compact.  I see that between the 133 and 273 there is some obvious savings in the price difference and thats a plus, of course.  Most, if not all of anchors i've installed or will install will be from aid positions or on rappel, so the extended consideration of ergonomics and weight with respect to installing anchors while leading won't apply to me.

I see now that the Ryobi tool is a 1/2-inch size and i didn't catch that when i initially posted.  Yours and the other responder's comments make sense in that regard.

The compactness is a plus for sure but you just can't find the same kind of deals on the 273 as the 133 and it has more impact force for relatively light weight (I think the geometry contributes). There are tons of great work horses out there from the quality brands its just that you are not likely to find a better value than the 133. I got mine and 2 4ah batteries for $220.

The 133 is NOT a drill for on lead due to its length and I doubt you can beat the m12 for that.

CPO outlet for refurbished (with warranty) bargains. If you want a compact drill for on lead you can find the small Bosch on there with batteries for ~$200 commonly. They usually have the bigger 18v drills too at very reasonable prices.

https://www.cpooutlets.com/rotary-hammers

hillbilly hijinks wrote:

The compactness is a plus for sure but you just can't find the same kind of deals on the 273 as the 133 and it has more impact force. There are tons of great work horses out there from the quality brands its just that you are not likely to find a better value than the 133. I got mine and 2 4ah batteries for $220.

The 133 is NOT a drill for on lead due to its length and I doubt you can beat the m12 for that.

CPO outlet for refurbished (with warranty) bargains. If you want a compact drill for on lead you can find the small Bosch on there with batteries for ~$200 commonly. They usually have the bigger 18v drills too at very reasonable prices.

https://www.cpooutlets.com/rotary-hammers

i'm tracking all of what you've said.....and all the other helpful comments here.  It is not until you really delve into this topic that you then realize just how many products are out there currently.  That coupled with the varying degrees of tech info offered, the variety of sellers online, and then even the consideration of battery strengths.  It is quite an exercise to sort through it all.  I appreciate yours and others feedback.

On the 133, i will say that it and others like it are probably better suited ergonomically for demo and material removal.........and perhaps other more conventional rotary/hammer tool tasks outside of anchor installation.  I do also use my current drill for things other than climbing.  So the 133 has that going for it.

If you are drilling top down there is nothing problematic with the ergonomics of the 133. That said, unless I was pinching pennies at the time (and I was) I would go with a 273 geometry for nothing more than how convenient it stuffs in a pack. Otherwise a 133 or reconditioned Bosch 11255VSR ($180, no batts) would be hard to beat for the money.

For on lead the small drills M12, Makita LXT or Bosch RHS181 all have their admirers. Note they (at best) have half the impact energy of a 133. Most choose one of the heavier drills for top down and bolt replacement (often with 1/2" glue-ins that need a deep hole). 

If you are buying "one drill" for all your needs then generally spending more will lead to buying once. Spending cheap will generally lead to buying again and again...

This is much like the cam buying thread where ryobi is the trango and everything else is more or less the same.