Stuff you can't climb if you are just a sport climber. Post em up.

Trad resentment is fundamentally always about the grade

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

the excuses that I hear are pathetically lame. It costs too much says the dude who buys lattes every day and drinks super expensive hippy beer. whatever.  you are free to climb whatever the fck you want to climb just don't spray about how much better you are than the person who climbs big rocks because you have a sexier number attached to your small rocks..  they are still small rocks...  

Calling someone pathetic and then complaining about them looking down on you seems a bit hypocritical. There are a lot of boulders who just like to try hard at climbing for a total of 15 min and then kick it and drink a beer. Some just like the fact that the movement is more unique. Most boulders I talk to think sport climbing and trad climbing is way more badass anyway. 

thats fine. whatever you want to do. again this thread was a direct response to the other thread where they obviously trolled every trad climber for being weak and trad climbing is not worth doing anyways.  this thread is trolling the folks that are not all around climbers.  again if you want to specialize  that is perfectly fine but it will limit your ability to climb outside of your niche.  saying you could do it if you wanted to but you just don't want to doesn't cut it.  Anyone  can go that route. either you have done it or you haven't. 

no yelling, just not buying your weak excuses.

ALL climbing is just training for mountaineering :) 

Shit is definitely getting weird when some dude starts yelling at you for buying beer instead of cams.

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

As, Nick Goldsmith would say, you are missing the point. Bouldering is training for other domains in many people’s eyes, therefore a an average boulderer will be more than capable (physically) of being an average all rounder, an elite boulderer will be more than capable of being an elite all rounder and so on.

It’s not so much about the person (ondra), but about the discipline (bouldering). The strength to be an all rounder will translate whether you boulder V4 or V14. 

Are we talking about bouldering to train? Or when you talk about a "boulderer" it sounds to me like someone who primarily or exclusively pursues that particular discipline. Look, I admire the shit out of the athleticism, strength and grace of a good boulderer. But none of that is going to save their bacon 3 pitches up on even an easy 6 pitch trad climb when they don't know routefinding or gear placement or rope systems... Point is that they're very different styles and skill sets. You can say, "If you teach a boulderer all the trad climbing skills" and then, sure, you're right. But the skills of being a good traddie don't come from a quick youtube tutorial or a cheat sheet. 

I primarily am climbing trad these days, and I’m REALLY enjoying the smaller crowds at the crags where the climbs are mostly trad. Let them clip bolts!

curt86iroc wrote:

ALL climbing is just training for mountaineering :) 

...say all mountaineers ever!
I feel the same bro, where else, after 25 yrs of climbing, would you have your heart beating fast while climbing .10c if it wasn't for the altitude, the tiring approach, the heavy backpack, the bad night and the precarious pro that I m placing ;)

 My buddy Alex some place in Utah 1996. Isa in the Daks early 2000's

Heisenberg.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

 JT you obviously missed the point of the whole conversation.  This topic was started in response to the other thread where they were apparently confused as to why anyone would even bother trad climbing as if it was some bothersome thing that was beneath them.   My post  is in no way disparaging sport climbing. It is pointing out that people who shun trad climbing on principle are missing the basic skills to climb most of the worlds greatest climbs.  saying that you could if you wanted to but choose not to is pathetically lame.   I had no thought of elite climbers and name dropping when I started this. my thoughts were prompted by that whiny thread and my experience with local kids who bitch about not being able to climb at our local crag because its not bolted enough for them. they have to drive several hrs to Rumny just to get a lead in...  they have the strength but not the mental capacity to learn a new skill therefore entire moderate cliffs are shut to them.   gear climbing and crack climbing is not rocket science and its not a dick measuring contest. its simply a tool that allows you to climb more terrain.  Likewise a tard climber who refuses to clip bolts is categorically shutting themselves out of thousands of  great climbs.  Personally I am relieved that most new climbers are not all around climbers as the resource is stretched too thin as it is.  just tired of hearing the excuses and the false superiority.  Its kind of like listening to a martial arts black belt trying to justify not having a ground game.... 

So then an interesting subquestion is "what stuff can't you climb that you would want to climb if you are just a sport climber". I'm shit at trad, and the stuff I climb would bore most sport climbers, so I don't have a ton of ideas, but this route comes to mind:

Not a ton of jamming (depends on the snow level), trivial approach and descent, and some of the best climbing I've encountered.

Dave Sarazin wrote:

I primarily am climbing trad these days, and I’m REALLY enjoying the smaller crowds at the crags where the climbs are mostly trad. Let them clip bolts!

In that difficulty range in the park, I'd say routes on Hallet might also be appealing. Lots of face climbing, and shortish approaches.

Also Digital Crack (8a). It's just a sport climb, and the approach is a rappel off a cable car platform, but needs some basic mountaineering skills to get out:

Bogdan Petre wrote:

So then an interesting subquestion is "what stuff can't you climb that you would want to climb if you are just a sport climber". I'm shit at trad, and the stuff I climb would bore most sport climbers, so I don't have a ton of ideas, but this route comes to mind:

Not a ton of jamming (depends on the snow level), trivial approach and descent, and some of the best climbing I've encountered.

In that difficulty range in the park, I'd say routes on Hallet might also be appealing. Lots of face climbing, and shortish approaches.

I think we are slowly learning that’s not the point of this forum according to the OP, the point is to sh!t on people who can’t or don’t trad climb and mostly post choss (only half joking about the choss)       

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

I think we are slowly learning that’s not the point of this forum according to the OP, the point is to sh!t on people who can’t or don’t trad climb and mostly post choss (only half joking about the choss)       

I think we would all prefer to convince sport climbers that they've been wrong all along, but that means beating them at their own game: convenient, difficult, quality climbing, except it goes on forever and the setting will leave you dumbstruck with awe.

Incidentally, I did the Rebuffat-Baquet (photo I posted that you quote) with a dude who mainly sport climbs, had never done anything in the alpine before, and was skeptical of it.

Based on his reaction upon topping out, I think he was sold.

No amount of shitting on sport climbers would be as satisfying as something like this^. That said, he was much stronger than me and after relying on me to get him to the base of the route, dragged me up the rest of it. I left convinced I needed to sport climb more, and hit up Rumney before even getting home from the airport...

Certainly not my intent to shit on sport climbers. They are strong and motivated, I love sport climbing. I don't however get boycotting a style of climbing that is useful to up your game and open opportunity..   If there is a  multi pitch sport climb handy in my grade range I am all over that.  I do think it would suck dog snot to get on Prince Of Darkness with MP down gradeing spray in your head thinking you will cruise it with no trad gear and then find yourself bailing from the perma screw link halfway up the 2nd pitch because you don't know how to place two stoppers and one cam. 

If you really didn’t mean to shit on sport climbers, then you would have titled the thread “All the great stuff sport climbers can climb if they learn to climb trad”

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Certainly not my intent to shit on sport climbers. They are strong and motivated, I love sport climbing. I don't however get boycotting a style of climbing that is useful to up your game and open opportunity..   If there is a  multi pitch sport climb handy in my grade range I am all over that.  I do think it would suck dog snot to get on Prince Of Darkness with MP down gradeing spray in your head thinking you will cruise it with no trad gear and then find yourself bailing from the perma screw link halfway up the 2nd pitch because you don't know how to place two stoppers and one cam. 

I mean....if the guidebook/mp said no trad gear why would they bring trad gear, regardless if they knew how to place it?

the guidebook lists trad gear. don't know about MP I do know many spraylords on the interweb like to diiss that climb because its mostly a sport climb and their traddy panties get all bunched up so they call it a sport climb, then the super hard sportos  cruise it without the trad gear but your average sporto that thinks they will cruise it without the gear gets as far as the screw link and has to bail.  The real obvious move would be to add two bolts to that climb. P1 however is all gear (or used to be ?) but only 5.6 so lots of folks scramble it. 

Mark. Stop being so fucking politically correct! ;)

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Mark. Stop being so fucking politically correct! ;)

I'm from Boulder.

Plus I have to atone for my route renaming apostasy

june m wrote:

Imho the worst  climb I have  ever done. And for those Trad climbers who  have really strict ethics about bolts all the cruxes are bolted.

 FK "ethics" and following climbing rules one doesn't agree with...I pull those draws all the way up...people who actually climb don't give a shit about that...One of The Best Routes in the US! But don't take my word for it..