You can now flag a discriminatory name

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Yea who cares if the innocent go down with the guilty. I mean if our founding fathers didn’t want it to be that way, they should have come up with some sort of “innocent until proven guilty” clause.

Just to be clear, you are also talking about the names of rocks on a website? 

SinRopa wrote: Isn't that what you're talking about too?

Yea. I don't understand what invoking "innocent until proven guilty" has anything to do with it. 

We have a lot of innocent folks wrongly convicted of serious crimes but, nah, let’s really focus on protecting screwed up sounding route names. We wouldn’t want to risk getting rid of some dead wood if there is so much as a whiff of some obscure back story, or maybe a hip, ironic stance we should have picked up on.

On a related note, I just got a therapy animal for my gun.

Its quite easy to see and know which names are explicitly derogatory, racist, discriminatory, etc. and need to be changed. Those are the names no one is arguing to keep.

The issue comes when people flag routes that are vulgar, explicit, or based on interpretation to be inappropriate (69, Animal Farm, etc.). These can left be for the meantime as we deal with the overtly problematic names as there are plenty of those to occupy most of our time. If some of the inappropriate names do get changed along the way, c'est la vie.

If you get mad or offended that the names get changed, check where your anger is really at because it's ludicrous to be mad or angry about a name change for a route.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Yea who cares if the innocent go down with the guilty. I mean if our founding fathers didn’t want it to be that way, they should have come up with some sort of “innocent until proven guilty” clause.

At first I thought you were talking about innocent minorities being profiled, harassed and killed by the police. But upon a more careful read, I suspect you might be talking about the injustice of forcing a potentially innocent route name to be changed. Could you clarify?

Edit: Oops, didn't notice there was another page of posts/beating dead horse/etc.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

...Names of routes clearly don’t equate with human lives, but my point remains.

But what's the harm in changing route names like 69 to something a tad more appropriate? 

Parents won't have to awkwardly explain or make up a reason why the route is named that anymore and for everyone else, the change is not going to affect anything about their lives.  

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

What on earth is wrong with 69ing? Are you implying that pleasure is wrong? Fucking puritans in this country. Parents seem fine with violent movies and video games but OMG sexxxxx the bad man is talking about sex!!! The horror!

That proved my point quite well and more succinctly than I did. Thank you. 

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

This post is violating rule 1 because you’re a damn idiot.

Sorry, being an idiot is rule #69

Dave K wrote: It is sad that this is the hill you chose to die on Greg...

That's already been used by Russ.  Nice try

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

Are you not going to address my reply to your condemning cops wrongly? 

I will. Following a fucked up order because it's fucked up, and resulting in a murder makes the guy kicking the door down a murderer. Full stop. Should the charge go up the line? Absolutely, but "just doing my job" is not an acceptable defense 

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Hahaha well played. But for real, what is the problem with 69 or any other sexual act? It’s sex, we all do it, and it ain’t bad.

That's my point though. The name "69" is not bad, but obviously some people may be offended by it because it's vulgar'. 

This doesn't mean the name should be changed either but IF it does get changed what is the real damage?

My stance is to keep a name like this. Being offended by sex is ridiculous in its own right. But it is also absurd to get mad over the name being changed. 

Dave K wrote:

You got the wrong Dave, not unlike like the triggerhappy thugs you are trying to defend.

@PWZ, as well.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm trying to explain that the cops in question are not the same as the cops in most of these situations. Without carefully considering the details, the real criminals are walking around without consequence. Hating cops indiscriminately is simply a bad approach to the problems we face. If systemic issues prevail because we allowed individual cops to be scapegoated, then we fail, and they win.

Gumby Da Younger wrote: It's not that sex is bad, it should be kept in your van as not to share what happens there with someone's kids who may not be accustomed to viewing such out in the open, same with racism, having to explain to your kids why a sign says you can't use a drinking fountain is probably pretty humiliating. 

If your kid asked you why a route is named 69, you just say "it's the number before 70, and the one after 68. Must be significant to the bolter for some reason". They will then learn about 69 in middle school, or probably earlier now a days, and they'll get a good laugh about that one route they did years ago. Sounds like you are after parenting, not sexual innuendo's for route names. 

This thread is a mess. 69 and BLM in the same page. Someone add something else super random just to mix it up...

...EDIT:- Nazi's¡

Just had 2 of my routes flagged "Heart of Darkness" which is on Jungle Cliff, so I thought the name appropriate, and "Genocide" on Berlin Wall, I named that one as a repudiation of the Nazi atrocities. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Mark Rolofson wrote:

Yes I couldn't agree more.  The world has gone mad and so has Nick Wilder. MP will no longer be about documenting the facts because route names are facts.  It will become a silly attempt to sanitize the world for child friendly consumption.  The real world's not like that.  Its a dirty place.  Perhaps MP has gotten to big for its britches, and there soon will be room for internet competition.

That is an interesting point about facts. Many have referred to this action as "renaming the routes", but that is impossible because there is only one person who decides and assigns a name for each route. This isn't changing the name of routes, this is flagging a set of routes to intentionally misidentify in this website's database.

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

If your kid asked you why a route is named 69, you just say "it's the number before 70, and the one after 68. 

this reminds me of a great joke. what do you call people who teach their kids abstinence?

grandparents.

If a route name is changed, will it still be ok to mention that it was "previously known as ..." in the route description or in a comment? I forsee an issue of people resubmitting routes, not realizing that the route already exists under a new name. Print guidebooks won't reflect changes made on here for some years (if ever!), so I don't think it's a good idea to completely censor any mention of the historical names.

Interesting, "Heart of Darkness" and "Animal Farm" both flagged?  Literary masterpieces that dive into the destructive gravitation of the human soul (one an actual human, the other personified in animals)?  Glad to see our public school system is educating kids well these days.

Mac III wrote:

Sounds like your racist against frank. ....wow....

Lego of your racism dude.

And this isn't the hill you want to die on Lego 

Definitely agree with you there. Frank's opinion on anything matters nothing to me. 

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

Pinning this on the cops on the scene, those who pulled the trigger, is simply not justice. Those cops were just following orders, and acting in accordance with their protocols for engagement. Trying to prosecute cops who were just doing their job is injustice. The people sitting in the police station, planning the no knock raid, and the Chiefs that gave the order to act, are the real criminals. You could even go so far as to say the Mayor is culpable, and should have resigned his position for letting the police department become a terrorist organization. There are a lot of situations where bad cops do evil things, but this wasnt one of them. This falls on the higher ranking police officials, and the politicians that control them and their budget. If those officers went to jail for following orders, and all of the decision makers walk away unblemished, they'll just replace the pawns with someone else, and the practice of violent, militaristic policing will remain.

This is absurd.  These cops were not simply following orders and they must be charged for murder.  Was the cop who murdered George Floyd just following orders?  Why didn't the other cops who stood there and watched intervene?  The knee on the neck tactic is taught to US police by the Israeli military, who commonly oppress, brutalize and murder innocent Palestinians.  We need to stop sending our police to Israel for training. Police have "qualified immunity from prosecution" and this is why they often us unnecessary force.  Just watch how they arrogantly flaunt their authority to beat up peaceful protesters.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7rOSiYiRNQ  or  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw7vHuhgYTk

Yes there is blame to go around for mayors and politicians.  The Democrats new bill "Justice In Policing 2020" is basically toothless reform and political theatre designed to calm the angry masses.  It doesn't demilitarize, defund the police or end their qualified immunity.  It actually increases police funding and police budgets normally dwarf other city services.

MP is starting to behave like Facebook or Twitter that often take down pages and suspend accounts.  I'm not saying they were never justified, but too often it's done for political reasons (not violating their policy of hate speech or promoting violence). How MPs new system will work is to be seen.  Renaming and flagging route names, doesn't address the cause of so many police murders of unarmed citizens.(mostly African American but whites, too). I've said it before and I'll say it again:  Its about making privileged white people feel better about themselves by enforcing  "politically correctness".  They can now say look, we're banning racist, sexist, anti-LGBTQ, anti-semitic route names, therefore we've done something to end discrimination.  Creating a world with less freedom of speech is not the answer.