Are climbing certifications important for guiding businesses?

Do you feel that a guiding business should have guides who are professionally trained and have obtained certification or do you feel climbing instruction/guiding certifications are overrated? Personally I feel that anyone taking people out climbing and charging money should have been evaluated by an objective third party who is using agreed upon national standards to determine if you have mastered the requisite skills to manage new climbers in the vertical world. In addition, I view those trainings and certs as a core risk management component as they provide a business with researched best practices that if there was ever an incident you could use to show a lawyer that you adhere to and have been evaluated and shown proficiency in those skills/best practices. I understand that experience is also a critical component but is it ok to have a guiding service that has no wilderness medicine training or climbing certifications at all? I'm asking just because there are these type of businesses that are taking people rock and ice climbing with no professional certifications....Can you call yourself "the best" or "the most experienced guides" without these trainings and certs?

Although there are surely competent guides without certs, the certifications provide some assurance of meeting certain industry standards.

There are going to be exceptions, but generally, having an AMGA certification is similar to being a board-certified doctor. You have been recognized as having completed training applicable to the cert.

Unless I know the guide or his reputation, I'm choosing one with a certification over one without. Same thing with a doctor. 

That's my take on it. Let the arguing begin.

Edit: I believe many land managers require some level of AMGA certification to legally guide in their jurisdiction.

What kind of insurance company would insure a guide without some kind of certification? I assume that every guide without certification is also operating without any kind of insurance. Sounds like a nice way to get sued into oblivion if anything goes wrong.

If you’re the best, what could go wrong?? ;)

Someone PM me who we are talking about...

Is it acceptable for a guiding business to hashtag other guiding businesses without their consent? Neither DLCG or BRCG have any affiliation with these guys yet they hash tag them in their posts...

chris tregge wrote: Gee I wonder who you are referring to Eric.  Following.  

Take a guess. These folks are really out there....

EB wrote: Is it acceptable for a guiding business to hashtag other guiding businesses without their consent? Neither DLCG or BRCG have any affiliation with these guys yet they hash tag them in their posts...

That is a very lame attempt at “drafting” on others reputations. 

I hire guides and value the certifications.   Getting a certification shows commitment to a trade and third party validation of qualification.  
Certification is not essential.  As I recall we had an excellent day out with a Nols instructor insured by a local gym.  I value the Nols experience over certification.  We had a mixed experience with a AMGA guide who had intensely twisted ropes and struggled all day with the ropes  but kept us safe and on course.

We also had an uncertified guide who Soloed the second pitch of a multi pitch day.  That experience really led me to value the certification.  Guides need to protect themselves.  Doesn’t matter how dialed in a route is.  I am paying a safe fun day.  Nothing bad happened but it was unprofessional.  

You don’t have to have the certification but not having it seems like a potential marketing problem and I imagine getting insured is harder without it.  

I've done certification courses in both US and Canada.  In my experience the vast majority of participants had their technical skills pretty much dialed in prior to the courses.  Where the courses added value was the expertise and overall knowledge of the examiner.  Especially in two areas:  safety and communication/client management skills.  Just being able to climb 5.10+ does not make one a good guide.  I'm skeptical of organizations who employ non-certified guides.  Do those organizations really have the expertise to evaluate guide candidates or are they just trying to hire guides on the cheap?