REI gear return policy

I remember a few years back when I heard about the REI garage sale I’d asked the employee I was talking to if they had climbing gear. They said they don’t because all climbing gear returned to REI gets mangled to an unusable state and thrown in the dumpster for liability reasons of course. Years later I think about that, and how much second hand shit I’ve bought/sold/found, and still use.

REI, why not just send it back to the manufacturer, get their almighty approval for a resale or whatever it takes, and then sell it at the garage sale? 
I mean shit recycle man 
Edit to add: this goes out to all companies too, not just REI 

Mostly cost, but also probably liability.  You'd need to get the manufacturer to develop a process to show that the part still meets the certification standard to which it was manufactured, which for a lot of gear, isn't worth the time and money.  Also, who's liable if the part fails after resale, since I don't think there currently exists a standard that you can recertify used gear to...

You figure a tech's time bills at about 50/hr, and it takes minimum 2 hours to recertify a part, so to recertify something, you're probably talking about dropping $150 just to recertify/approve something for resale.  For most gear, it's not worth it.

I doubt any manufacturers would want to spend the time to certify returned gear. The world we live in is all about liability and cost. 

With the vast majority of gear it’s actually impossible to re-certify it. You have no idea what the customer did prior to returning it and can’t really take any chances. As someone who has seen first hand the ammount of waste this produces let me just say, try on your damn harness before you buy it. Don’t be one of probably hundreds that returns gear because it’s simply the wrong size. 

There was a piece on NPR over the weekend about returned merchandise. It focused mostly on the clothing industry where returned clothes were just being tossed into the dumpster because of the cost to put it back on the shelf. Clothing that was worn once at home and returned because of the fit or similar reason. People were learning about this practice and dumpster diving and reselling the clothes. At the end of the day it is all about cost which is why one can often not get replacement parts. Costs too much to stock them. Just buy new (and often mfg give a coupon to buy at cost).

I work for large scale mechanical contractors.
There is a cost/benefit analysis employed with what we have come to refer to as consumeables.
Take extension cords for example. The big companies buy them in bulk, thus they spend about $18 for a cord.
When you have an employee making $30 an hour roll that cord up and store it daily, as opposed to making production, you quickly get to where you are losing money on that cord. Thus, we are instructed not to devote man hours towards non production efforts.
It is a enigma from the consumption economy we are in.

climbing specific gear aside, i think REI does a pretty damn good job at offering used items for resale through their garage sales and REI Used website. I always check REI Used first when i'm looking for new to me (non-climbing) gear. 

The question from the REI / mfr side has been answered by everyone above.    

Probably the better question is to the buyer:  why didn’t you know what you were buying in the first place and is the return legit.  

Having worked at REI back in the day, I can attest that the majority of returns were not “legit”

The key to reducing waste is to reduce the selfish dumbass factor.  This pretty much applies to everything in life.  

Ok, so there is cost, but still let’s say an REI has 20 cams returned that they just threw in a bin in the back room, instead of just throwing them away they could still make a little cash on them instead of just throwing them in the trash and some dirtbag gets a discount rack. They’re losing out when you deem something probably totally sellable a complete loss. Just doesn’t make sense. Ropes, sure, I don’t buy those used either, but shit man I still rack rigid stems, not to mention quite a few cams that when you pull the trigger the whole stem bends over. The shit still works and I can’t imagine the people returning all this gear, (slings, nuts, cams, hexes, harnesses) are taking them home and holding a propane torch to some part nobody will see before they return it.

Just all seems a bit ridiculous to be that scared of being sued. Be cool as shit of the world would see that and change

No returns on climbing gear.
The manufacturers should demand this. Saves everyone money in the long run. 

Jeff Luton wrote: Ok, so there is cost, but still let’s say an REI has 20 cams returned that they just threw in a bin in the back room, instead of just throwing them away they could still make a little cash on them instead of just throwing them in the trash and some dirtbag gets a discount rack. 

i think you're missing the point. it's the same reason many food banks only take donated food in original sealed containers. no one wants the liability...

Having worked at REI years ago I’d bet to say if hardware is returned it probably doesn’t  get trashed.
A manager will take it to a climber that works there and say ”this stuff needs destroyed and tossed” wink wink  What happens after that is up to that employee.

Jeff Luton wrote: Ok, so there is cost, but still let’s say an REI has 20 cams returned that they just threw in a bin in the back room, instead of just throwing them away they could still make a little cash on them instead of just throwing them in the trash and some dirtbag gets a discount rack. 

Defending a single liability court case, even one that's totally frivolous, can easily cost $100K. Look at the marginal profit of used/returned gear and do the math.

Just all seems a bit ridiculous to be that scared of being sued.

It's not being scared; it's called fiduciary responsibility.

Jeff Luton wrote: Just doesn’t make sense. Ropes, sure, I don’t buy those used either,

If you won't buy ropes just because they're used even if they look good because you don't trust yourself to visually inspect, the same should hold true with cam slings.

Just all seems a bit ridiculous to be that scared of being sued. 

Job numero uno of any corporation, no matter what they tell you about their altruistic, small footprint bullshit that people all soak up (yes, including Patagonia) is to make more money than they did last year.  Hard to do that if you're getting sued.  REI's garage sale or yard sale or whatever is an attempt not to take a complete loss on items they had to take back and avoid liability.

You should also note that many gear manufacturers are not located in the US, but are outsourced. Many suppliers and distributors are hands off with the companies that make things. So how do you send Taiwan crap back to have it evaluated? Usually in the scrap bin.   

I think another big point that is being missed is how do you evaluate a piece of gear and deem it safe? Generally the only way to determine how strong something is, is to break it. When the product is first sold every single step of the manufacturing process is tracked and recorded. All of that goes out the window once the product leaves a store. 

Whoever said no returns on climbing gear, I tip my hat to you. I like that idea.

What’s to stop them from selling the used gear with a liability waiver?

Liability waivers won't keep you out of a lawsuit. They may help you win the lawsuit but time and money will be spent on the defense. If it was possible to sell returned gear and not end up in a lawsuit and loose more money off one lost case then they could profit off ALL returned gear they would already be doing that. 

Risk versus reward...

High risk with low reward

Mark Pilate wrote: The question from the REI / mfr side has been answered by everyone above.    

Probably the better question is to the buyer:  why didn’t you know what you were buying in the first place and is the return legit.  

Having worked at REI back in the day, I can attest that the majority of returns were not “legit”

The key to reducing waste is to reduce the selfish dumbass factor.  This pretty much applies to everything in life.  

Can you elaborate? I return stuff to REI a few times a year because it didn’t fit. I had no way to try it on because they didn’t stock it. Is that not a legit reason? I’m not being argumentative, I just want to know.

Barry M wrote: Liability waivers won't keep you out of a lawsuit. They may help you win the lawsuit but time and money will be spent on the defense. If it was possible to sell returned gear and not end up in a lawsuit and loose more money off one lost case then they could profit off ALL returned gear they would already be doing that. 

The world we live in kinda blows