Montane Alpine 850 Down Jacket

Unboxing

I received Montane’s new “Alpine 850 Down Jacket” in the mail today.  As compared to last year’s Deep Heat Jacket, there are a few differences and a few similarities.  The Deep Heat Jacket is a great belay jacket for seriously cold environments and the new Alpine 850 appears to be even better due to its weight and anticipated higher insulation values.

Similarities

As far as similarities go, The new Alpine 850’s helmet-compatible hood isn’t the deepest hood I’ve ever worn.  It just barely accommodates my Mammut Wallrider, coupled with a knit beanie, the scuba-style hood of my Nano-Air Light Hoody and the hood of my Alpha FL jacket.  The Rab knit beanie, Nano-Air Light hood and Alpha FL hood don’t create an excessive amount of material, so you’d think the Montane designers would’ve taken moderate layering into account when they created this and the Deep Heat Jacket.  Both parkas have British-style lefthand double zippers and hem snaps for belay duty.  One of the first things I’ve noticed with both jackets is how lofty they look and feel.  Both appear to be constructed with high quality goose down and precise craftsmanship.

Both jackets have two internal dump pockets which are well made with strong material.  They aren’t the largest dump pockets I’ve ever seen, but they do fit most winter climbing gloves and medium sized mittens just fine.

Differences

As far as differences go, there are a few.  First, the new Diamond Lite exterior is much “softer” compared to the Deep Heat’s Quantum Pro fabric.  The Diamond Lite feels much more supple and packable, but obviously that equates to a less abrasion-resistance.  The interior fabric of the Alpine 850 appears much “lighter” compared to the interior of the Deep Heat, also.  For reference, the Quantum Pro fabric feels like it’ll handle years of abuse.

In relation to differences, the fit and feel of the two jackets definitely differ.  The Deep Heat felt a little more fitted than ultimately preferred for a belay jacket.  The Alpine 850 is cut much more  with layering in mind.  With ice clippers attached to my harness, the Alpine 850 easily drapes over my entire harness and completely covers my ass.  Again, the Deep Heat was cut slightly trimmer, so I wasn’t able to comfortably get the Deep Heat to drape over everything, especially the ice clippers.  I could get the Deep Heat to drape over, but I always feared a screw or my ice tool would shred the interior fabric.

Both jackets are in “Firefly Orange,” which, for the Deep Heat, is a high-vis orange.  The Alpine 850 appears to be ever-so-slightly muted compared to the Deep Heat’s orange.  This is probably due to the difference in exterior face fabrics.  The below photos may appear slightly red, but in fact, this jacket is orange.

One issue I noticed with the Deep Heat, especially with a helmet on, is minor constriction in the neck/collar when zipped up entirely. The Alpine 850 has fixed this issue and has plenty of room when completely zipped with a helmet on.

As far as weight goes, the Alpine 850 feels very light for its anticipated warmth.  On my home scale, the Alpine 850, men’s large, which includes the attached hang tags and stuff sack, weighs 725 grams.  That’s 10 grams less than what’s listed on Montane’s website.  The Deep Heat, men’s large, w/o the stuff sack/tags weighs the same, 725 grams. To verify my scale was zeroed property, I weighed a known weight, which was spot-on.

I know the Deep Heat has been discontinued and at this point, is pretty hard to find.  The Deep Heat served me very well last winter and I was very happy to have it.  When I saw Montane released the Alpine 850 this year with a higher fill power and 50+ more grams of down fill, for equivalent weight, my curiosity went overboard.  Montane’s website lists the Alpine 850, in medium, with 350 grams of hydrophobic, 850-fill down.  I’m not entirely sure how much down is incorporated in the men’s large.

 I’ve been dying to get my hands on a Grade VII just to see if all the hype is warranted, but I can’t justify the $900 price tag.  I understand they go on sale at the end of the season, but except for the initial release colors in 2016 (Viking Blue and Paintbrush Red,) the past few seasons colors haven’t interested me at all.

Reference

For photo reference, I'm 5'10", 160 pounds and I wear a medium in just about most brands.  In the photos, I'm wearing an R1 quarter zip under a Nano-Air Light Hoody, all under an Alpha FL Jacket, which is directly underneath the Alpine 850.  The harness I'm wearing is a medium AR-395A.  Winters where I live, ski and climb tend to get very, very cold.  It's not uncommon to climb in single digit Fahrenheit weather and having a warm belay jacket is non-negotiable.  

Looks like the midweight parka to buy to me. Doubt the Grade VII will do anything that much better other than save a couple of ounces and give the Backpacking Light reviewer a hard-on. 

Glad the weight was on point, unlike that other website suggested. Trivial, but still annoying when manufacturers can't give correct specs.

Tell me about the pockets. I'm as particular about hand warmer pockets as you are about hoods :-) The only thing I don't like about the Grade VII is there's relatively little insulation in front of the pockets (plenty behind, I would prefer the same on either side or even the opposite with more insulation in front like most jackets). There's no fleece lining (just shell material) and it's easy to get what little down is there wet. It's sewn through construction in front of the pockets as well (or "welded through," whatever).

How is the butt coverage?

Insulation behind the zipper? 

I ordered the same jacket for the same reasons and it's nice to see an actual review on it finally. Mine should be here in a few days. Isn't the daimond light fabric supposed to be strong and more rip resistant despite being thinner and softer? 

Thanks for this, looks like a great deal. what size do you have?

jdejace wrote: Tell me about the pockets. I'm as particular about hand warmer pockets as you are about hoods :-) The only thing I don't like about the Grade VII is there's relatively little insulation in front of the pockets (plenty behind, I would prefer the same on either side or even the opposite with more insulation in front like most jackets). There's no fleece lining (just shell material) and it's easy to get what little down is there wet. It's sewn through construction in front of the pockets as well (or "welded through," whatever).

How is the butt coverage?

Insulation behind the zipper? 

1. The hand pockets are plenty deep, as to be expected.  The outboard portion of the pockets have a fleece liner and the inboard portion is the same material used on the inner portion of the parka. If you stuck wet gloves in the hand pockets, I'd say chances are very high they'd soak through and saturate the outboard down baffles.

 You're absolutely right, I have an odd irritability when manufacturers don't dial in a hood.  I honestly feel Montane could have done a way better job with the Alpine 850's hood, along with the Deep Heat's hood.  When they list it as "helmet compatible," I feel like they're stretching it to the limits there.  The Alpine 850's hood is probably slightly more shallow that the Deep Heat's hood, which as previously mentioned, I had a problem with last year.  If I could change anything about either, it's be the depth of the hood to better accommodate a climbing helmet and reasonable layering systems.

2. The butt coverage is on-point.  My Alpine 850 in men's large comes down past my ass to just above mid thigh.  Superb coverage.

3. Adequate insulation behind the zipper. Anymore would make zipping a raging pain in the ass. I do wish Montane used the zippering system of most Patagonia pieces as they always zipper perfectly for me.  On that note, Montane needs to study almost every single Arc'teryx hood and attempt to replicate.  I've yet to meet an Arc hood I didn't love.

nowhere wrote: Thanks for this, looks like a great deal. what size do you have?

You're welcome, I enjoyed typing it up.  I ordered a men's large and glad I didn't go any bigger.  It fits bigger on the "large" spectrum for me, but layers nicely.

Dylan Kirk wrote: I ordered the same jacket for the same reasons and it's nice to see an actual review on it finally. Mine should be here in a few days. Isn't the daimond light fabric supposed to be strong and more rip resistant despite being thinner and softer? 

Yes, that's my understanding.  According to Montane, "Diamond Lite is a lightweight 20 Denier nylon fabric with ‘liquid crystal’ yarns woven into the face, making it extremely resistant to abrasion and tearing." Time will tell if this really means anything with actual field use.  I think Black Diamond's new belay parka uses some-sort of "liquid crystal" technology, too.

AlpineIce wrote:

1. The hand pockets are plenty deep, as to be expected.  The outboard portion of the pockets have a fleece liner and the inboard portion is the same material used on the inner portion of the parka. If you stuck wet gloves in the hand pockets, I'd say chances are very high they'd soak through and saturate the outboard down baffles.

Can you tell if the insulation in front of the pockets is box baffled?

On that note, Montane needs to study almost every single Arc'teryx hood and attempt to replicate.  I've yet to meet an Arc hood I didn't love.

I liked my Montane hood better :-) I think we just have different head shapes, helmets and preferences. Arc hoods don't have enough face coverage IMO. It's my only complaint about the Dually. 

If you look at the parka reviews on major manufacturers' websites there are typically complaints from people walking their dogs that the hood is too big, so I understand the temptation to try to compromise on size even though it's silly. Sucks they do it even on the high end model, but the reality is that there are more $$ technical parkas walking around NYC on any given day than in the mountains. 

Dylan Kirk wrote:Isn't the daimond light fabric supposed to be strong and more rip resistant despite being thinner and softer? 

I think all these sub-2lb parkas are relatively fragile and it's splitting hairs going from one to the other. Only so much you can do with ~20d nylon. The coated fabrics (Endurance/Pro/whatever-they're-calling-it-this-year) feel a little thicker due to the PU layer but I doubt they're actually stronger. 

I just noticed another little hole in the shell of my Grade VII. No idea how it happened (like almost every hole I've ever gotten in down jackets). I have a hard time trusting these things. Maybe I'm rough on gear. 

jdejace wrote: Can you tell if the insulation in front of the pockets is box baffled?

It's obviously tough to tell, but from what I can see, coupled with my wealth of sewing knowledge, it does appear the down on the outboard side of the hand pockets is box baffled.  Again, due to my superb sewing knowledge, I could be wrong, though. :-)

AlpineIce wrote:

Yes, that's my understanding.  According to Montane, "Diamond Lite is a lightweight 20 Denier nylon fabric with ‘liquid crystal’ yarns woven into the face, making it extremely resistant to abrasion and tearing." Time will tell if this really means anything with actual field use.  I think Black Diamond's new belay parka uses some-sort of "liquid crystal" technology, too.

Mind sharing where you got the jacket from? I just recently picked up a Nilas for ~350, but with this jacket having ~5oz more down fill for a similar weight and price, I'm highly considering switching over to a warmer jacket since it can't really hurt.

Primary uses were going to be for a belay jacket when ice climbing or for cold ascent days. Also I'm 5'9" and 150lbs, usually fit a small, would you recommend a medium?

The Nilas in a small seems to fit me with a few layers underneath (baselayer, light midlayer, softshell).

Nathan Lewis wrote:

Mind sharing where you got the jacket from? 

I replied via email. My apologies for the delay.

Hi AlpineIce,

Thanks for your detailed write up.  I'm currently going through a cold snap (-40C / -40F with wind chill and temps arounds -30C) and re-evaluating my "of eff" puffy.  Aka my girlfriend has usurped by OG Nilas (when it still used 850 down).  The Montane Alpine 850 looks like a great jacket for an emergency layer.  My main uses are ski touring and on temps below -15C I'd like to carry something like the Alpine 850.  I'm a medium (6'1" 180lbs) build and was wondering about sizing - you went up to Large?   I was wondering if Medium would work if it's cut like a parka to get over my Atom LT and Goretex shell which are Mediums.  Can you help out on sizing?  As a Canadian I'd have to order online and pay duties so hoping to get some insight.  Thank you!

-rad

I recently ordered a medium. I'm 5'10" 165 pounds and generally wear medium. It fits over a medium Patagonia nano air and goretex shell (both medium, though the shell is cut fairly loose), but its a bit snug to the point that the down is getting a little compressed, particularly under the arms. still totally fine, but not ideal. for my use I'd rather that than have the bagginess of a large if I'm wearing less underneath, but you're a bit bigger than me, so large may be the way to go.

Brad Fowler wrote: Hi AlpineIce,

Thanks for your detailed write up.  I'm currently going through a cold snap (-40C / -40F with wind chill and temps arounds -30C) and re-evaluating my "of eff" puffy.  Aka my girlfriend has usurped by OG Nilas (when it still used 850 down).  The Montane Alpine 850 looks like a great jacket for an emergency layer.  My main uses are ski touring and on temps below -15C I'd like to carry something like the Alpine 850.  I'm a medium (6'1" 180lbs) build and was wondering about sizing - you went up to Large?   I was wondering if Medium would work if it's cut like a parka to get over my Atom LT and Goretex shell which are Mediums.  Can you help out on sizing?  As a Canadian I'd have to order online and pay duties so hoping to get some insight.  Thank you!

-rad

Considering your height & weight, I'd go with at least a large, maybe consider an XL, too. It's tough to recommend a size w/o knowing you.  It's a big coat to haul around for ski touring.  Even though it's only 725 grams (for the amount of warmth is provides) it'll take up a lot of room in your ski pack, unfortunately.

For those asking about the jacket, I'm 5'9" and 150lbs, and I probably would not go any smaller than the medium for myself. A bit long in the arms but otherwise fits well. Unfortunately as Alpineice has pointed out, the hood is a bit snug with a helmet on. Depending on how much movement you need with the jacket on, it could be a little restricting if you opted for a smaller jacket.

I'm hoping they come out with a new jacket next year with a slightly larger hood so that I can actually turn my head comfortably. Otherwise the jacket is awesome.

Hey guys! Any updates from a longer-term review?

I saw this jacket mentioned in another thread and wound up here. Seems like a high value item (what you get for the price.)

Demetri V wrote:

Hey guys! Any updates from a longer-term review?

I saw this jacket mentioned in another thread and wound up here. Seems like a high value item (what you get for the price.)

I'll write up a long-term report near the end of this winter season, but for all intents and purposes, it's the warmest belay jacket I've ever used or owned. It's definitely a lot of "jacket," but for its weight, and price, it's arguably one of the best down belay jackets available for northern climates and high alpine ranges.

I still hold the hood in contempt, however. It's very warm, but not very accommodating. For whatever reason, it appears Montane constructed the "helmet-compatible" hood just big enough for a helmet and not much else. I don't know about you, but when I'm wearing a belay jacket of this caliber, I'm usually wearing numerous layers; including several hooded layers. As I mentioned in my initial review, the Alpine 850's hood just doesn't layer well at all. It's a very tight fit with my usually cold weather layering approach. Sometimes I find it's so constricting, I can't zip all the way up. This obviously fails to insulate my neck and chin with down, which I hate, leaving me irritated, to say the least.

I have not experienced any significant issues with down bleeding or moisture collapse, however, I haven't used it in higher humidity like the PNW.  Just like most British manufacturers, the left-handed zipper takes some time to get used to, and when your hands are cold and the wind is blowing, the Alpine 850 can sometimes be a challenge to get zipped. This is exasperated by the high loft of the jacket, the double-sided belay zipper, combined with the lofty draft tube. Sometimes, you really have to whisper sweet nothings to it so that it properly seats and zips, haha.  Additionally, I've had no durability issues with the exterior/interior fabrics, but, just like any down insulation I own, I do care for and baby the Alpine 850 as I'm always slightly worried about moisture exposure or accidental contact with sharp rock, ice tools, screws, etc.

The Alpine 850 packs down reasonably well for this much insulation, but when compared to a mid-weight belay jacket like a Rab Neutrino Pro, MH Nilas, FF Helios, etc, the Alpine 850 does consume a tad more pack space.  If Montane could tweak the hood in version 2.0, I think it'd be the top down belay jacket in its class. I've never owned a custom Nunatak jacket, nor a Grade VII, so it would be hard for me to compare at this point. 

AlpineIce wrote:

Just like most British manufacturers, the left-handed zipper takes some time to get used to, and when your hands are cold and the wind is blowing, the Alpine 850 can sometimes be a challenge to get zipped.

I have to say, I have jackets from both European and American brands and I've never noticed the zippers being on different sides. I was here, scratching my head, thinking 'what does he mean by 'left handed zipper'? I even tried unzipping the jacket I'm wearing with both hands to see if there is any difference... <facepalm>

abs257 abs257 wrote:

I have to say, I have jackets from both European and American brands and I've never noticed the zippers being on different sides. I was here, scratching my head, thinking 'what does he mean by 'left handed zipper'? I even tried unzipping the jacket I'm wearing with both hands to see if there is any difference...

What I mean by "left-handed zipper" is, the slider/puller are anchored to the left side of the track vs. the right side.  Jackets sewn with a destination for U.S. sales are constructed oppositely; slider/puller are anchored on the right ride of the track/teeth. Every Rab and Montane jacket I've ever owned, I have to zip the jacket by seating the slider/puller with my left hand vs. for example, a Patagonia jacket, where I seat the slider/puller with my right. For right-handed folks, this take time to get used to.

How would you rate the jacket in terms of warmth? I mean, how cold do you think the jacket woudl hold to? 

I am very interested in this jacket, and would specially use it during long winter nights of photography, so maximum warmth when standing still is really important for me. Not sure if it would be OK for temperatures as low as - 30 or - 35 Celsius. 

Thanks so much in advance!