Katanas Blew Hole After <2 months outside?!

But with that said this does seem premature imo

Positive Resoles does the best resoling job I've seen. The do stitching and patchwork too. I'm always pleased when I get my shoes back from them. They take a couple weeks or more to do their work though.

KG wrote: Do you drag your toes when you climb at all? I had a shoe do this same thing to me and it made me realize that I conscientiously drag my toes a lot when climbing which was why I was seeing wear similar to this. Since realizing that I try hard not to drag my toes which has lead to better longevity with some of my shoes. Just a thought. If you don't drag your toes then that does seem quiet premature. 

I cant say I never do- sometimes it's unavoidable- but it's a pretty rare occurence and I definitely don't do it any more than I did with the pair I have that lasted over a year before wearing through. If anything I do it less outside and less than a year ago since I've gotten way better. 

I think it's a function of the sharp rocks I climb on frequently and poor workmanship on this particular pair (LaSpos are each handmade and vary from pair to pair). I've been doing a lot more trad and thus more toe jams. On sharp rock with the randomly thin toe rubber on this pair, it prob just tore. Again, I'm not saying my footwork is perfect, but the folks at REI and other ppl on MP have said the hole looks like a tear and not a hole that wore thru. If you look carefully, it appears to be have been creased and torn across the sole. REI said the rubber is thinner than it should be and that they see this kind of quality control from La Sportiva from time to time.

Having said all this- I intend to really focus on my footwork so I don't have this happen on my new pair inside 6 months (let alone 60 days).

You mentioned in the original post that you were walking around in them between climbs. If you begin a route with dirt/mud/sand on the toe then it will wear the rubber down much faster - especially if you are climbing something footwork intensive. I've seen the spot under the big toe get shredded in a few moves (gritty sand on the toe and sharp granite climbing - twisting into a drop knee). It wouldn't really explain how you got a hole above the big toe, but it might help explain why they are so worn down and past due for a resole. 

Jared Sanders wrote: To echo Jonathan's comment, you are definitely FAR past due for a resole.

I climb in Katana lace, and yes, your shoes are exceptionally clean and "unused" looking from my perspective.  I have noticed my Katanas delamming a bit over time, but that's kind of standard for LaSpo. However, while I'm not sure I would say you are "faaar" overdue for a resole, I agree that a resole should be had now to minimize further rand damage. Also, it does appear you've worn down your shoes a la toe dragging (below the hole)....regardless of your story (sorry, dude).

But this:

Plus, if you've only climbed in the shoes as little as you claim, you should buy a cheaper pair of shoes and work on your footwork a little bit more before you buy a $200 pair of Sportivas and blow them out in less then 2 months. Seeing people in the gym climbing in Katanas makes me cringe.

I can't agree more.

There are an infinite number of ways to destroy a pair of climbing shoes in a DAY. Adam Ondra went through a new pair of Katana Lace for every day he was on the Dawn Wall.

Katana Lace are super high performance shoes, and completely unnecessary for 5.10 climbing. You should find some cheaper shoes with thicker rubber. That rand rubber (the part you destroyed)  is super soft 1.8mm VIbram XS Grip II rubber, and it doesn't lie if you have bad footwork and don't take care of your shoes or toenails...

Try out the Finale, with 5mm of Vibram XS Edge rubber. Much less expensive, and very capable. People have climbed 5.13+ in the Finale, it is a great shoe, and stands up to abuse. Still made in Italy out of premium materials and takes a resole really well. Almost half the price. 

I punched a hole straight through my sole+rand on a single move on some sharp limestone recently. Don't be surprised when a sharp rock cuts through soft thin sticky rubber.

Also, if your shoes get replaced by a manufacturer, that doesn't necessarily mean they were defective, it just means you got amazing customer service. 

ROCKMAN2 wrote: There are an infinite number of ways to destroy a pair of climbing shoes in a DAY. Adam Ondra went through a new pair of Katana Lace for every day he was on the Dawn Wall.

Katana Lace are super high performance shoes, and completely unnecessary for 5.10 climbing. You should find some cheaper shoes with thicker rubber. That rand rubber (the part you destroyed)  is super soft 1.8mm VIbram XS Grip II rubber, and it doesn't lie if you have bad footwork and don't take care of your shoes or toenails...

Try out the Finale, with 5mm of Vibram XS Edge rubber. Much less expensive, and very capable. People have climbed 5.13+ in the Finale, it is a great shoe, and stands up to abuse. Still made in Italy out of premium materials and takes a resole really well. Almost half the price.

I punched a hole straight through my sole+rand on a single move on some sharp limestone recently. Don't be surprised when a sharp rock cuts through soft thin sticky rubber.

Also, if your shoes get replaced by a manufacturer, that doesn't necessarily mean they were defective, it just means you got amazing customer service. 

I second the stop using high performance shoes if you climb 5.10b/c. I assume those grades are sport climbing grades (which means you probably climb V2/3). If that is the case, you need to work on technique and that will help make your shoes last. 

I could climb mid 11’s And v5 and was going through shoes in a similar speed. I learned proper technique and my shoes last 60+ days of climbing (climbing similar grades).

ROCKMAN2 wrote: There are an infinite number of ways to destroy a pair of climbing shoes in a DAY. Adam Ondra went through a new pair of Katana Lace for every day he was on the Dawn Wall.

Katana Lace are super high performance shoes, and completely unnecessary for 5.10 climbing. You should find some cheaper shoes with thicker rubber. That rand rubber (the part you destroyed)  is super soft 1.8mm VIbram XS Grip II rubber, and it doesn't lie if you have bad footwork and don't take care of your shoes or toenails...

Try out the Finale, with 5mm of Vibram XS Edge rubber. Much less expensive, and very capable. People have climbed 5.13+ in the Finale, it is a great shoe, and stands up to abuse. Still made in Italy out of premium materials and takes a resole really well. Almost half the price.

I punched a hole straight through my sole+rand on a single move on some sharp limestone recently. Don't be surprised when a sharp rock cuts through soft thin sticky rubber.

Also, if your shoes get replaced by a manufacturer, that doesn't necessarily mean they were defective, it just means you got amazing customer service. 

Katana laces are soled with XS Edge, not Grip II... Same rubber as the finale, though the katana has 4mm, while the finale has 5mm.

https://www.sportiva.com/katana-lace.html

Julian H wrote:

Beside the shoe slipping I don’t see why sand will cause the rubber to wear out faster. I had a pair of shoes with xgrid but after climbing on granite it was not wearing out that nicely it was more like chunks ripping out. I think the crystals in granite cut into the rubber. Once that happens it will wear out a lot faster. Maybe that is what you noticed. Twisting into a drop knee will put a lot of force on the shoe. 

Sand will do the same thing but on a smaller scale - making the wear look a lot more uniform than climbing on sharp granite. When I climbed in Arkansas, the mud plus gritty, hard sandstone wore my shoes out super fast. I have noticed that sand on shoes in the desert doesn't matter as much since the rock is exfoliating sand anyway.

Andrew Krajnik wrote:

Katana laces are soled with XS Edge, not Grip II... Same rubber as the finale, though the katana has 4mm, while the finale has 5mm.

https://www.sportiva.com/katana-lace.html

Rockman was talking about the rand rubber and regardless of the rubber composition he’s right about it’s 1.8mm thickness. You’re correct that Katanas do come with 4mm Edge Rubber for the climbing sole.

Insert name wrote:

I second the stop using high performance shoes if you climb 5.10b/c. I assume those grades are sport climbing grades (which means you probably climb V2/3). If that is the case, you need to work on technique and that will help make your shoes last. 

I could climb mid 11’s And v5 and was going through shoes in a similar speed. I learned proper technique and my shoes last 60+ days of climbing (climbing similar grades).

I climb v5/6 and 5.10b/c is pretty comfy for me-  I'm on sighting at that grade. I can go into 5.11s, bit this summer I was climbing sport a lot with ppl who aren't as good as me (not that I'm great).

But TBH, my own skill level is irrelevant (unless you're just trying to turn this into a dick-measuring contest). The fact is you don't have to be climbing Adam Ondra level routes to be standing on tiny little chips and benefit greatly from a downturned shoe with an edge as opposed to a rounded toe. I own Finales and they suck; zero edging ability. So while I'm sure you can climb hard in them, I've also seen someone climb 5.11d in Tevas- that doesn't mean we should all abandon our rock shoes and 'really work on our footwork'...

Back to my poor Katanas- I'm fairly certain it was the toe jamming on sharp basalt that did the shoes in (is there some way to toe jam in a crack with sharp rock without doing damage?). I'm sure my footwork could improve, but I know ppl who climb similar grades/styles and their Katanas lasted much longer than these and wore out in more a more predictable way. The tear in the toe rubber is not in the same spot as the wear- its several millimeters above it. I got a new pair though, so I'll keep you all apprised to what happens.

Anyway- thanks so much for the feedback everyone. I absolutely will be focusing heavily on footwork and have been wearing shoes I care less about, namely those shit Finales and Testarossas (gasp! But I'm not climbing v16!?)

And I love the recommendation to clip my toenails. Haha!

Josh Glantz wrote:

I climb v5/6 and 5.10b/c is pretty comfy for me- I can go into 5.11s, but this summer I was climbing sport a lot with ppl who aren't as good as me (not that I'm great).

But TBH, my own skill level is irrelevant (unless you're just trying to turn this into a dick-measuring contest). The fact is you don't have to be climbing Adam Ondra level routes to be standing on tiny little chips and benefit greatly from a downturned shoe with an edge as opposed to a rounded toe. I own Finales and they suck; zero edging ability. So while I'm sure you can climb hard in them, I've also seen someone climb 5.11d in Tevas- that doesn't mean we should all abandon our rock shoes and 'really work on our footwork'...

Back to my poor Katanas- I'm fairly certain it was the toe jamming on sharp basalt that did the shoes in (is there some way to toe jam in a crack with sharp rock without doing damage?). I'm sure my footwork could improve, but I know ppl who climb similar grades/styles and their Katanas lasted much longer than these and wore out in more a more predictable way. The tear in the toe rubber is not in the same spot as the wear- its several millimeters above it. I got a new pair though, so I'll keep you all apprised to what happens.

Anyway- thanks so much for the feedback everyone. I absolutely will be focusing heavily on footwork and have been wearing shoes I care less about, namely those shit Finales and Testarossas (gasp! But I'm not climbing v16!?)

And I love the recommendation to clip my toenails. Haha!

I prefer lace-up Muiras over the Katanas for tight cracks (I also love my TC Pros, but the toe is sorta round and less precise - I've only ever noticed this as a problem on those weird razor edges you see when climbing basalt). We both climb at a similar level and I mostly climb basalt. The Muiras are more sensitive than the Katanas, but have held up a little better than the Katanas in my experience (I have no idea about differences in rubber between the shoes though). 

On thin splitters (.3 - .75 range) I like wearing a looser fitting slipper so I can get my toes into the crack a little better than with any LS shoe. Looser fitting slippers suck on anything other than true splitters though. 

David Deville wrote:

I prefer lace-up Muiras over the Katanas for tight cracks (I also love my TC Pros, but the toe is sorta round and less precise - I've only ever noticed this as a problem on those weird razor edges you see when climbing basalt). We both climb at a similar level and I mostly climb basalt. The Muiras are more sensitive than the Katanas, but have held up a little better than the Katanas in my experience (I have no idea about differences in rubber between the shoes though). 

On thin splitters (.3 - .75 range) I like wearing a looser fitting slipper so I can get my toes into the crack a little better than with any LS shoe. Looser fitting slippers suck on anything other than true splitters though. 

Thanks David! I found a pair of TC pros in my size for $39 at REI in the used section that "got used once and didn't fit right". I thought I'd hate them but I secretly love them. I'll have to try the Muiras out though. I've also long considered 5.10 slippers so maybe I'll try those out while I'm at it.

R Sather wrote:

Rockman was talking about the rand rubber and regardless of the rubber composition he’s right about it’s 1.8mm thickness. You’re correct that Katanas do come with 4mm Edge Rubber for the climbing sole.

Fair enough. When he followed up his comment about grip rubber on the Katana with a recommendation for the Finale with 5mm of Edge rubber, I assumed he was talking about the sole. (The Finale clearly does not have 5mm thick rands.) I don't know that there's any evidence that the rand rubber is different between the two shoes, in terms of thickness or composition.

Does anyone have details about LaSpo rand rubber? I've always assumed it was a different composition from Edge or Grip, since it's much thinner, and not intended to be climbed on.

Josh Glantz wrote:

Thanks David! I found a pair of TC pros in my size for $39 at REI in the used section that "got used once and didn't fit right". I thought I'd hate them but I secretly love them. I'll have to try the Muiras out though. I've also long considered 5.10 slippers so maybe I'll try those out while I'm at it.

Muira's are very narrow, FWIW

You may also try the Boreal Ninja's if you are looking for a slipper. They work in finger cracks really well if you size them right.

Buck Rio wrote:

Muira's are very narrow, FWIW

They start out narrow, but if you keep readjusting the laces near the toe for the first couple weeks of use they will smash out. I wear US 13 and I have wider feet. The Muira's were definitely narrow and uncomfortable at first, but you just keep loosening the laces near the toe and eventually everything forms to your foot. The lacing is really annoying and difficult to get nice and loose, but they are a great shoe once you dial in the lacing and break them in good.

Work on your footwork. The sole looks completely worn away where your big toe is. Blame it on the rain, yeah yeah.

Josh Glantz wrote:

I climb v5/6 and 5.10b/c is pretty comfy for me-  I'm on sighting at that grade. I can go into 5.11s, bit this summer I was climbing sport a lot with ppl who aren't as good as me (not that I'm great).

But TBH, my own skill level is irrelevant (unless you're just trying to turn this into a dick-measuring contest). The fact is you don't have to be climbing Adam Ondra level routes to be standing on tiny little chips and benefit greatly from a downturned shoe with an edge as opposed to a rounded toe. I own Finales and they suck; zero edging ability. So while I'm sure you can climb hard in them, I've also seen someone climb 5.11d in Tevas- that doesn't mean we should all abandon our rock shoes and 'really work on our footwork'...

Back to my poor Katanas- I'm fairly certain it was the toe jamming on sharp basalt that did the shoes in (is there some way to toe jam in a crack with sharp rock without doing damage?). I'm sure my footwork could improve, but I know ppl who climb similar grades/styles and their Katanas lasted much longer than these and wore out in more a more predictable way. The tear in the toe rubber is not in the same spot as the wear- its several millimeters above it. I got a new pair though, so I'll keep you all apprised to what happens.

Anyway- thanks so much for the feedback everyone. I absolutely will be focusing heavily on footwork and have been wearing shoes I care less about, namely those shit Finales and Testarossas (gasp! But I'm not climbing v16!?)

And I love the recommendation to clip my toenails. Haha!

Dang that guy triggered you. If you are really climbing V6 then 5.12 + should be your sport grade and 11s and low 12s should be onsights. For micro edging on vertical a sharp edge is not required and a down turn is not the way to go.  Soft rubber is great for smearing but a harder rubber holds the edge better. If you need to micro edge on 10s then a hard rubber will work better and last longer. If the rock is sharp the soft rubber is not needed for the smears either.

Josh Glantz wrote:

I climb v5/6 and 5.10b/c is pretty comfy for me-  I'm on sighting at that grade. I can go into 5.11s, bit this summer I was climbing sport a lot with ppl who aren't as good as me (not that I'm great).

But TBH, my own skill level is irrelevant (unless you're just trying to turn this into a dick-measuring contest). The fact is you don't have to be climbing Adam Ondra level routes to be standing on tiny little chips and benefit greatly from a downturned shoe with an edge as opposed to a rounded toe. I own Finales and they suck; zero edging ability. So while I'm sure you can climb hard in them, I've also seen someone climb 5.11d in Tevas- that doesn't mean we should all abandon our rock shoes and 'really work on our footwork'...

Back to my poor Katanas- I'm fairly certain it was the toe jamming on sharp basalt that did the shoes in (is there some way to toe jam in a crack with sharp rock without doing damage?). I'm sure my footwork could improve, but I know ppl who climb similar grades/styles and their Katanas lasted much longer than these and wore out in more a more predictable way. The tear in the toe rubber is not in the same spot as the wear- its several millimeters above it. I got a new pair though, so I'll keep you all apprised to what happens.

Anyway- thanks so much for the feedback everyone. I absolutely will be focusing heavily on footwork and have been wearing shoes I care less about, namely those shit Finales and Testarossas (gasp! But I'm not climbing v16!?)

And I love the recommendation to clip my toenails. Haha!

Climbing grades have a lot to do with judging technique.

Onsighting 10b with pure Strength is a pretty easy feat, onsighting 12’s Solely on strength is not. I’m not going to say use whatever said shoe, but you can expect high performance shoes to wear out faster with lack of skill.
(Like tires on a race car). 

Leron wrote:

Dang that guy triggered you. If you are really climbing V6 then 5.12 + should be your sport grade and 11s and low 12s should be onsights. For micro edging on vertical a sharp edge is not required and a down turn is not the way to go.  Soft rubber is great for smearing but a harder rubber holds the edge better. If you need to micro edge on 10s then a hard rubber will work better and last longer. If the rock is sharp the soft rubber is not needed for the smears either.

Yea man, super triggered! It's almost time for me to make a blog post with a ton of hashtags about such heinous microagressions!

In all seriousness (and pardon the hokiness), I couldn't care less the grade of the route, as long as it's fun and stimulating. I've found that most sport 5.8s are boring as hell and that 5.10-11 is where I'm getting a decent workout, pulling fun moves, but not really risking falling, and most importantly- having a great time. I've always had a modest goal of being able to climb alpine 5.10(c/d), and I started sport climbing as a means to getting comfortable on ropes. I'm almost there with sport, so now I'm working on trad (slow going). I know I'll have to push myself and get out of my comfort zone in order to climb trad 5.10+, but I have no intentions of taking my climbing any harder.

Interesting point about soft rubber; is there a hard rubber shoe that is similar to the Katanas that I love (but perhaps wears out too fast outside the way I climb)? I like the downturn for pulling roofs.