Top rope anchor

To setup anchor could I skip step no.5?

Yes.

0/10

Sure but at that point you only have no backup in case of failure on one side.

The concern that I have for step no. 5 untying the knot would be tough. Any solution to that?

Robert Michael wrote:

0/10

^^^

Best to just skip step 1.

ViperScale . wrote:

Sure but at that point you only have no backup in case of failure on one side.

Not entirely correct. True, no backup for failure of the sling (how likely is that?), but there is backup if one of the bolts fails (and how likely is that?).

To the OP: it's far easier to just use a pair of quick draws. Put a locker on each one if you want the added peace of mind.

Marc801 C wrote:

Not entirely correct. True, no backup for failure of the sling (how likely is that?), but there is backup if one of the bolts fails (and how likely is that?).

To the OP: it's far easier to just use a pair of quick draws. Put a locker on each one if you want the added peace of mind.

 You might want to look at that bolt failure thread. There are lots of bolt failures out there. Much more than you would think.  While you're at it, you should look at the sling failure thread. A rock fell and cut the sling. That's probably more rare. But it happens.    I wouldn't recommend forgoing redundancy on the forums. 

Step 5 makes the anchor non-extending.  Which is important.  Read up on what a SRENE anchor is and how to build one.  There are several ways.  The one described above is not my favorite.

Greg D wrote:

 You might want to look at that boat failure thread. There are lots of bolt failures out there. Much more than you would think.

Anchor bolts? On sport climbs?

  While you're at it, you should look at the sling failure thread. A rock fell and cut the sling. That's probably more rare. But it happens.    I wouldn't recommend forgoing redundancy on the forms. 

Hence the recommendation for the far more common use of a pair of QDs.

Is the troll still hungry?

Marc801 C wrote:

Not entirely correct. True, no backup for failure of the sling (how likely is that?), but there is backup if one of the bolts fails (and how likely is that?).

To the OP: it's far easier to just use a pair of quick draws. Put a locker on each one if you want the added peace of mind.

Thanks mate for your advise. Will skip step No. 5 then for now.

I believe quickdraws is good to use if the length, height of the anchor bolt is equal for this case  

By any chance there’s tips to untie the knots in step no. 5? I’m afraid ended up with dead knots. 

Jjensen wrote:

Step 5 makes the anchor non-extending.  Which is important.  Read up on what a SRENE anchor is and how to build one.  There are several ways.  The one described above is not my favorite.

You are kidding right?  How is that anchor non-extending?  Reduced extension does not mean non-extending.

The dangers of extension in your typical top rope anchor are pretty minimal.   No mass at anchor, so no shock load.  No belayer change of angle so no concern there.

However why no just tie a single knot?  Or use two slings?  It accomplishes everything without issue.

patto wrote:

The dangers of extension in your typical top rope anchor are pretty minimal.   No mass at anchor, so no shock load.  No belayer change of angle so no concern 

However why no just tie a single knot?  Or use two slings?  It accomplishes everything without issue.

Good points, so I'll answer them:

Why not?

- because two slings is slower than one.

- because tying a knot is slower when need to untie the full-body-weight loaded knot afterward.

patto wrote:

> "The dangers of extension in your typical top rope anchor are pretty minimal".

Consider that even in the very-very low probability event that a sport anchor bolt would fail while a following climber was climbing (but not already when the Leader was setting up the anchor), the additional length of the fall might be about 2 feet (and anyway the work of yanking the bolt out will absorb some of the fall impact).
and
Climbers belayed on Top-Rope routinely fall much farther than 2 feet -- because of rope stretch.
. . . (why some professional guide services have a policy of not using dynamic lead ropes for belaying clients top-roping).

Ken

Greg D wrote:

 While you're at it, you should look at the sling failure thread. A rock fell and cut the sling

May be rare but also unpredictable. This image always comes to my mind if I see someone skip #5.  To the OP...I wouldn't take that chance...such easy ways to avoid this.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/110088639/rock-fall-results-in-chopped-anchor

Marc801 C wrote:

Hence the recommendation for the far more common use of a pair of QDs.

The main disadvantage for the simple TR situation might be that you get more abrasion of your rope because the biners on a quick-draw are smaller diameter than what you'd likely use if setting up with a sling.

For more complicated TR situations (like leading one climb and then also setting a TR on another route nearby), there is the small (and preventable) possibility that if you have the clipping biners of both QDs ffacing outward, and then climb _above_ the anchor, and then fall, the rope might possibly unclip itself from both QDs (like back-clipping).

And for more complicated TR situations, having a sling or two and some bigger locking biners is at least more convenient.

Also if you climb at an area that has non-horizontal (vertically-offset) bolts with a pre-installed pigs tail / rams horn lower-off or carabiner for lower-off or rappel ring -- hung from the lower bolt -- and you want to be a good citizen and save wear on the pre-installed hardware, then bringing a sling or two and a locking biner or two seems like a simpler way to do it.
Therefore worth knowing and having thought though the details of your strategy for using a sling.

Ken

/Cuzzo Italiano wrote:

By any chance there’s tips to untie the knots in step no. 5? I’m afraid ended up with dead knots. 

If you're worried about it, you could tie figure 8s instead of overhands, which are easier to untie. But I've never had trouble untying overhands in tube webbing/nylon slings unless we spent a reeeaaaally long time on a TR

KayJ wrote:

May be rare but also unpredictable.

Rockfall cutting the sling of a Top-Rope anchor is _not_ "unpredictable". 

If you always choose to do your Top-Roping on cliffs not exposed to rockfall from above, then it's very predictable that your TR anchor sling will not get chopped.

And there are obvious more important reasons _not_ to Top-Rope in situations exposed to rockfall from above. 

Ken

KayJ wrote:

May be rare but also unpredictable. This image always comes to my mind if I see someone skip #5.  To the OP...I wouldn't take that chance...such easy ways to avoid this.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/110088639/rock-fall-results-in-chopped-anchor

I maybe wrong but I thought one of arguments out of that rock fall anchor failure was to use the overhand/figure-eight knot master point.

If the rock fall hits the sliding X anchor, it would (in theory) break the both strains between the two limiter knots causing complete failure.

While in the master point knot anchor, it would break one side but leave the other side attached.

dino74 wrote:

I maybe wrong but I thought one of arguments out of that rock fall anchor failure was to use the overhand/figure-eight knot master point.

You aren't wrong.