Climbing Technologies Alpine Up Review

Old lady H wrote: Sorry, I meant any further thoughts on this device from those who've had a chance to kick it around? IF it measures up to the original review, does what the videos show it doing, it sounds like it could be a good choice as an alternative to a grigri, cinch, or any of the juls. I'm pretty happy with my ATC, and my competency with it, but I also get that I might want to consider an assisted belay device down the road. I've read all the failure mode threads, and grigris don't work worth a darn for me, so this one seems a possibility. It is also a pretty curious freak twisting of the laws of whatever for rgold and Jim titt to be so far off from each other. ; )

Doubt we are really so far from each other, just looking from a different place. Richard uses his for a specific purpose and with specific ropes and for most things it works well. He also has a need for a device that works with normal half-rope feeding technique and the Alpine Up is the onl device that realistically works well at this and provides "enhanced" braking power.
I on the other hand simply look at the uses given by the manufacturer and the parameters they set, a device may well be fantastic at one end of the range of rope diameters given but unusdable at the other. This is a fail since the manufacturers do not say this and advertise the product as suitable for both ends of the range. A device which does not give adequate braking performance for all situations with all the allowable rope diameters is also a fail.

A device specifically marketed for "Alpine" use, i.e multi-pitch climbing which then in the instructions says you MUST have a protection piece between the belayer and the faller is also a fail, a FF2 is a real posibility in alpine situations.

Testing is more difficult than reviewing, a reviewer will say rope feeding is wonderful because he compares it with whatever he is used to. Testing we measure it and have to have end points for our judgement, either we require that rope feeding is effortless (takes no measured force) or compare with the best device ever made to get the lower end of the scale, at the top end we normally take what the majority of climbers say is completely unnaceptable. The original review skated round this issue by given a somewhat optimistic rating for using suitable ropes and then giving up with thicker stiff ropes. Since the device IS marketed for thicker ropes it got an extremely poor rating from me.

These claims are issues the manufacturers should adress (but won´t) and regrettably volounteer reviews are most likely to be written by someone who is satisfied with the device, not the person who tried it once and threw it in the bin. Mine is gathering dust along with many, many others which fail to match the advertising claims.
That said, the Alpine up is the only one of this type of device I would consider using due to it´s excellent braking performance with thin ropes.

Thanks! Thanks for all the work you put into this too. I really appreciate the threads where a few of you get on a tear and a ton of great information starts flying! Best, H.

I know this is an old thread, but I'm looking info purchasing this device for my slippery 9mm Millet rope. Peoples opinions on it seem mixed, but the general consensus online seems to be that it works better on thin soft rope, but I'm curious if you guys think it would work well on a thin triple rated rope like mine.

Kaihaku wrote:I know this is an old thread, but I'm looking info purchasing this device for my slippery 9mm Millet rope. Peoples opinions on it seem mixed, but the general consensus online seems to be that it works better on thin soft rope, but I'm curious if you guys think it would work well on a thin triple rated rope like mine.

I use it with a mammut serenity 8.9 dry rope and it works very well with this rope. The serenity is mammut's triple rated rope.

I also use it with a pair of mammut phoenix dry 8.0 double ropes with which it also works very well.

I have a edelrid 9.5 dry rope. I works ok with this rope. It is more difficult than one would like to pull rope through the auto-block belay and it falsely auto locks occasionally with this rope.

Overall it is a great belay device and I recommend it.

Awesome, thank you! Also do you think it would be possible to set it up in a yo-yo/RAD system?

I just bought one today, as my one device to rule them all. I have a couple of questions for experienced Alpine Up users. 

When multipitch trad climbing / alpine climbing with trad protection, do you use Click-Up mode, or Dynamic? Instructions state to only use Click Up mode on bolt-protected routes, and I understand that the assisted locking could give a harder catch / place more stress on the gear. But I feel that the advantages of the assisted braking outweigh the disadvantages in most cases, and understand the Dynamic mode is not very strong. What have your experiences been? 

When belaying a second from above, and the anchor does not lend itself to guide mode, what is your preferred method of bringing up the second? From harness direct to belayer, or via redirect? In Click-up mode or Dynamic? 

Any other heads-up for new user? 

Thanks :-) 

Alex Rogers wrote:

I just bought one today, as my one device to rule them all. I have a couple of questions for experienced Alpine Up users. 

When multipitch trad climbing / alpine climbing with trad protection, do you use Click-Up mode, or Dynamic? Instructions state to only use Click Up mode on bolt-protected routes, and I understand that the assisted locking could give a harder catch / place more stress on the gear. But I feel that the advantages of the assisted braking outweigh the disadvantages in most cases, and understand the Dynamic mode is not very strong. What have your experiences been? 

When belaying a second from above, and the anchor does not lend itself to guide mode, what is your preferred method of bringing up the second? From harness direct to belayer, or via redirect? In Click-up mode or Dynamic? 

Any other heads-up for new user? 

Thanks :-) 

I use the click up mode for belaying the leader---I don't think there's enough friction in the dynamic mode for 8.5 mm ropes.

I mostly belay seconds with the device clipped to the rope loop on my harness with a snug tie-in.

Although the device pumps out slack really well, you can lock it up every now and then.  The release technique is to place the heels of both hands on the bottom of the device and shove it away from your body.  This same technique is needed at the base of most rappels in order to release the device when there is still some rope tension on it from the rappel.

It might be the most awkward of all the devices to thread, and it would be a good idea to work out a protocol so that you don't drop it.  Alternatively, you can use the hole at the base to clip the device to you with a quickdraw while you are threading it.

The only time I ever use dynamic mode is if I have to use a super fat rope. I've caught plenty of whips on bolts and on gear, and that is on chossy sandstone which will crumble under significant force. It may result in a higher impact force but, like you, I have determined that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages for my use.

I've top belayed in all three configurations and while guide mode is my preference if the situation allows, it works fine with a redirect or direct of the harness. I would say your decision between redirect and harness belay should be based more on the situation than the device because it works fine in either configuration. For these uses, I don't see a reason to use dynamic mode unless, again, you're using a super fat rope.

The only other heads up I would give is to make sure you use the belay biner that comes with it exclusively. A biner with a different width cross section could both cause it to lock up while feeding slack or, even worse, fail to lock up if it is too fat to travel up into the slot.

Is the Alpine Up at all useful for single ropes? I am very happy with the Click Up for single ropes in the 9.4-9.8mm range (so far--haven't had it very long) but I think I'm going to still have to bring my DMM Pivot for rapping and guide mode, so it would be nice to have a single device that could do both. But I've read a lot online that seems to indicate it's intended only for two ropes. Has anyone used the Alpine Up for single ropes?

EDIT: The other possibility I'm considering is single-strand rapping using the Click Up, with a system like this. I can make do without guide mode (I rarely do it anyway). I'll have to experiment a bit with the device before I decide whether I like that.

David Kerkeslager wrote:

Is the Alpine Up at all useful for single ropes? I am very happy with the Click Up for single ropes in the 9.4-9.8mm range (so far--haven't had it very long) but I think I'm going to still have to bring my DMM Pivot for rapping and guide mode, so it would be nice to have a single device that could do both. But I've read a lot online that seems to indicate it's intended only for two ropes. Has anyone used the Alpine Up for single ropes?

EDIT: The other possibility I'm considering is single-strand rapping using the Click Up, with a system like this. I can make do without guide mode (I rarely do it anyway). I'll have to experiment a bit with the device before I decide whether I like that.

When I want a retrievable rap (so two strands) with my Grigri I just leave one end tied in my harness, thread the rap ring/bolt/karabiner or whatever and lower myself on the other strand, can´t see why it has to be made any more complicated.

yes you can use the alpine up for single ropes. The only thing is that it may not lock up without a brake hand on single strand belay or rap.

Jim Titt wrote:

When I want a retrievable rap (so two strands) with my Grigri I just leave one end tied in my harness, thread the rap ring/bolt/karabiner or whatever and lower myself on the other strand, can´t see why it has to be made any more complicated.

If I'm understanding you correctly, doesn't this wear down the anchor hardware just as much as having your follower lower you?

The reason I would rap down in the first place is because the local ethic is to rap to preserve the anchor hardware. I almost always choose lowering over rapping when the local ethic allows it, but then I have my follower lower me, rather than lowering myself. The technique you describe is useful if your follower is incapacitated somehow and you have to get down solo, though.

Alex Rogers wrote:

I just bought one today, as my one device to rule them all. I have a couple of questions for experienced Alpine Up users. 

When multipitch trad climbing / alpine climbing with trad protection, do you use Click-Up mode, or Dynamic? Instructions state to only use Click Up mode on bolt-protected routes, and I understand that the assisted locking could give a harder catch / place more stress on the gear. But I feel that the advantages of the assisted braking outweigh the disadvantages in most cases, and understand the Dynamic mode is not very strong. What have your experiences been? 

When belaying a second from above, and the anchor does not lend itself to guide mode, what is your preferred method of bringing up the second? From harness direct to belayer, or via redirect? In Click-up mode or Dynamic? 

Any other heads-up for new user? 

Thanks :-) 

I use it in brake assisted mode. That for me is the whole reason for owning it. Although keep in mind that I've found that it does not go into lock mode with an incapacitated or poor belayer that doesn't, or can't, keep their hand on the brake strand during a fall. For this reason alone, I choose to use it only for half rope lead belaying. For single rope lead belaying I prefer a different brake assisted belay device that will lock up without a hand on the brake strand. This is why the Alpine Up is not a one device to rule them all for me. I think I've used it in dynamic mode once with a leader who was using old school thick half ropes that kept unintentionally locking the device when feeding slack. After hearing what people have said about the dynamic mode not being very powerful I'm going to want to safely test that myself to see what I think before using it again. 

It should work fine in any of your top belay situations, although like Eli mentioned which one you use should be dependent on what you have to work with for your anchor and the rock formations up top. Given the choice I'd use it guide mode when ever I can. It's great! I like to setup the extra carabiner sitting cross wise over the carabiner holding the rope so I can give slack at a moments notice if called for. 

David Kerkeslager wrote: Is the Alpine Up at all useful for single ropes? I am very happy with the Click Up for single ropes in the 9.4-9.8mm range (so far--haven't had it very long) but I think I'm going to still have to bring my DMM Pivot for rapping and guide mode, so it would be nice to have a single device that could do both. But I've read a lot online that seems to indicate it's intended only for two ropes. Has anyone used the Alpine Up for single ropes?

It will work fine with single ropes too in the same way as the Click Up. 

anotherclimber wrote:

Although keep in mind that I've found that it does not go into lock mode with an incapacitated or poor belayer that doesn't, or can't, keep their hand on the brake strand during a fall. For this reason alone, I choose to use it only for half rope lead belaying.

Officially, no device is fully auto-locking--no manufacturer is going to make that claim because it opens them up to liability. But there's some evidence that the Alpine Up can catch falls unattended (see here). I'd definitely want to see more tests before I'd trust it, though.

David Kerkeslager wrote:

If I'm understanding you correctly, doesn't this wear down the anchor hardware just as much as having your follower lower you?

The reason I would rap down in the first place is because the local ethic is to rap to preserve the anchor hardware. I almost always choose lowering over rapping when the local ethic allows it, but then I have my follower lower me, rather than lowering myself. The technique you describe is useful if your follower is incapacitated somehow and you have to get down solo, though.

Local ethics differ. In this instance, I suspect Jim was the one who put the hardware in. When I pay for it and then put the shit in, it tends to be places where there are few if any folks, and I do exactly what Jim does. I don't mind if others do it either. 

When I first got my AlpineUp, I did some hands off whipper tests with knots tied below the device. It caught about 9/10 falls. The one that failed to catch was on very stiff rope. 

David Kerkeslager wrote:

Officially, no device is fully auto-locking--no manufacturer is going to make that claim because it opens them up to liability. But there's some evidence that the Alpine Up can catch falls unattended (see here). I'd definitely want to see more tests before I'd trust it, though.

I'm pretty sure from what I read from Jim Titt's and Rgold's posts that the Grigri is certified as fully auto locking (I may not have the exact wording correct), and most everything else is manual brake assist. And if I remember correctly it has more to do with catching a factor two fall with no belayer input pulling the brake strand upwards. Despite this somewhat legal interpretation, there are some devices like the Mammut Alpine Smart Belay, Edelrid Megajul, and Grigri that I'd much rather have being used to belay me in the scenario of an incapacitated belayer that can't hold the brake strand, or an unattended brake strand from poor belay technique. It's not perfect mind you, but I know in most circumstances from the experience of using them that they will lock on their own even if the belayer can't or is not holding the brake strand. Both myself and Rgold have tested the brake assist feature on the Alpine Up in the scenario of an un-attended belayer without a hand on the brake strand. I did it in a gym on lead taking a fall slightly above the second clip with a thick bouldering pad below me. I used single ropes of different thicknesses and tested it several times with each rope. Each time I decked onto the pad with the Alpine Up. Doing this same test with a Grigri 1 and 2, Alpine Smart Belay, and Megajul I was caught each time. I believe Rgold did his tests with his half ropes, but I'll let him speak for himself about that. 

I have a suspicion that it may auto lock without a hand on the brake strand with half ropes right near it's 9mm max half rope size, or with two single ropes of the same size or larger. My observation of rappelling with my 9.2mm single rope is, that if you take it out of lock mode it will go right back into lock mode if you put weight on it without a hand or any resistance on the brake strand. I discovered this on a traverse I had to make to the next rappel anchor as I walked over to it on the ledge I landed on keeping my brake hand really loose on the brake strand. I've also used the Alpine Up with a climbing partner's old school half ropes that is as he claims as close to 9mm as he could buy at the time. Part way up the climb I had to have him temporarily anchor himself so I could switch to dynamic mode belaying on the Alpine Up as it kept going into lock mode while feeding slack and shorting him. Don't though take this second paragraph as completely tested stuff, because I haven't taken the time to really test these scenarios to see when it does and doesn't happen. 

The video you posted doesn't tell us what diameter the ropes they are using are. From what I can make of the foreign language, all they tell us is that it is an 8m fall with 70kg of weight and they figure it is a fall factor of 0.8. If they are thicker ropes, then I could see this potentially working reliably. Although you wouldn't enjoy lead belaying in brake assisted mode with these ropes as it would probably constantly go into lock mode as you feed slack. I also question the positioning of the Alpine Up in that video. It might be a lot different hanging off a persons harness than the anchor setup they use. If you have a friend or someone in a local gym who owns one, ask them about it and even see if you can try it out before you buy.

There is no one brake assisted belay device that does it all really well. In my own experience they all seem to have trade offs where one device does one thing better or worse than another. So you have to figure out what you want to do with it and what you are expecting out of it to match it up to the use case. 

David Kerkeslager wrote:

If I'm understanding you correctly, doesn't this wear down the anchor hardware just as much as having your follower lower you?

When you lower yourself, tension on each strand of the rope is only half (roughly) of your bodyweight. When your belayer lowers you, the tension on each strand of the rope is your full bodyweight. So lowering yourself place more wear on the hardware than rappelling, but not as much as getting lowered by your belayer.

anotherclimber wrote:

Both myself and Rgold have tested the brake assist feature on the Alpine Up in the scenario of an un-attended belayer without a hand on the brake strand. I did it in a gym on lead taking a fall slightly above the second clip with a thick bouldering pad below me. I used single ropes of different thicknesses and tested it several times with each rope. Each time I decked onto the pad with the Alpine Up. Doing this same test with a Grigri 1 and 2, Alpine Smart Belay, and Megajul I was caught each time. I believe Rgold did his tests with his half ropes, but I'll let him speak for himself about that. 

That's really good information! Thanks for taking the time to do these tests and share your results!

Billcoe wrote:

Local ethics differ. In this instance, I suspect Jim was the one who put the hardware in. When I pay for it and then put the shit in, it tends to be places where there are few if any folks, and I do exactly what Jim does. I don't mind if others do it either. 

That make sense, but if lowering is acceptable I find it easier to have my belayer do it, so I don't see a case where I'd use the self-lowering method. It sounds like this is just a preference thing, though.