Does Evolv rubber suck?

I actually really like Evolv. I think the Shaman's are a great shoe, well for sport climbing. I will say they do wear out faster than the Scarpa's I've owned but the Shaman performance is amazing. And yes, out of the box the rubber feels slippery but once broken in no problems.

I've never had a problem with Evolv in 6 years of climbing. Their new rubber is definitely better than the old, but I find the rubber to be as good I not better than sportiva, five ten, etc. It's always a matter of opinion with shoes, you're not going to get a definitive answer through a multitude of differing opinions, but good luck.

It's really really dependent on the style of climbing.

For edging, if it's rather sharp edges that can bite into the rubber a little they're fine. If it's a little slick or small, evolve rubber is just too soft.

That softness is a huge bonus in crack climbing since you can mold your foot very deep into the crack.

It's not durable.

It's fine for super steep routes like at the Red because you just don't put that much pressure on your feet.

As for their shoes, they lose their shape too fast. A pair of La Sportiva or Scarpa's can keep performing at a top level for years through 3 or 4 resoles. A pair of Evolves is usually pretty good near the end of it's factory resole and is pretty much blown out mush by the end of the second resole.

You'll never notice this in the gym, cracks, or on easy routes. That is why so many people unwittingly defend their rubber.

Dylan B. wrote:Has anyone published a chart or reviews that provides a quick and easy reference for the performance of different shoe rubbers? Whenever I go to get shoes resoled, I'm always at a loss for what to order. I'd like some kind of quick compare-and-contrast chart focussed specifically on rubber, not on the shoes themselves.

What exactly would you want to know?

In order of soft to hard:

(C4, Xtrax, XS Grip) -> XS Grip2 -> Onyx -> XS Edge

XS Grip & Xtrax are both more (warm) temperature stable than C4.

Provided you are actually attuned to your footwork, what would work best depends on type of rock, size of hold, temperature, shape & softness of the sole, your own weight & body type, your preference for performance/durability tradeoff, etc, etc. There are way too many variables for a quick chart.

I actually did a bit of a test awhile back comparing Evolv's rubber to C4. I had two pairs of Defys that I owned and both needed a resole. One was resoled with Evolv rubber and the other with C4. When I got them back I climbed several rather technical routes with delicate footwork, once with one shoe and then with the other. I had my partner just hand me a random shoe so I did not know which Defy I was climbing on. At the end of the day, I was unable to differentiate as to which rubber I was climbing on.

I really like some evolv shoe models. I like the geshido so much I have three pairs. I wasn't real crazy about the rubber though. I thought it wore to fast. The rubber didn't seem that sticky, but not so much it seemed to make much of a difference. For that matter though I don't seem to get the C4 hype so . . . either way, I wouldn't voluntarily resole anything with evolv rubber.

My first pair of shoes I had a long time ago was a cheap pair of evolv and I always felt like their rubber was slick. I than switched to five ten after testing them at a gym when my evolvs got holes in them and have never gone back. I can't say 100% if the rubber was worst on them (given the evolv cost like 80$ and my five ten cost 160$) or maybe I just had a cheap pair of evolv or it could be I am just alot better climber now so it feels like the rubber sticks better.

Also keep in mind Evolv uses EcoTRAX on their cheapest shoes, and that stuff kind of does suck. It's recycled rubber. However, they use TRAX XT-5 on just about anything that is better than their absolute cheapest shoes and XT-5 is great. It's easy to tell if the shoe has EcoTrax as it says on the sole in green lettering.

20 kN wrote:Also keep in mind Evolv uses EcoTRAX on their cheapest shoes, and that stuff kind of does suck. It's recycled rubber. However, they use TRAX XT-5 on just about anything that is better than their absolute cheapest shoes and XT-5 is great. It's easy to tell if the shoe has EcoTrax as it says on the sole in green lettering.

+1 good points

I like my evolv rubber :D Pontas 2

I've only use evolve approach shoes but they seemed to be slick at first then about the same as my 5.10 guide tennies. One thing I noticed is they seem to remain sticky even on wet rock when compared to the guide tennies.

ALL rubber is slick if it's been sitting on the shelf for a while. This is because the material on the surface is exposed, and oxidizes. This creates a hard/ slick feeling when first using them. During normal use, the rubber wears away and exposes the fresh non-oxidized sticky rubber underneath.

Whatever the rubber you choose, remember it's 99% the person inside the shoe that makes the difference in performance...

20 kN wrote:I actually did a bit of a test awhile back comparing Evolv's rubber to C4. I had two pairs of Defys that I owned and both needed a resole. One was resoled with Evolv rubber and the other with C4. When I got them back I climbed several rather technical routes with delicate footwork, once with one shoe and then with the other. I had my partner just hand me a random shoe so I did not know which Defy I was climbing on. At the end of the day, I was unable to differentiate as to which rubber I was climbing on.

Science!!?

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: Science!!?

This is science , but completely misses the boat on applicability to climbing. 20KN reminds me of Mahjid, at least he went out & tried & the results are more useful than that scientific test.

I personally love my evolve shoes. Hated my scarpas, despised the tarantulaces for reference.

I never really hated the rubber, though it's unimpressive.

I disliked how soft all of their models got when warm or broken in. I disliked how tight I had to wear them to get equivalent performance compared to other brands. I disliked their durability. I disliked their sizing roller coaster.

I thought they were good shoes until I found myself in a situation where it was inconvenient to get them and I bought 5.10, La Sportiva, and Boreals. My immediate reaction was that I was pissed that I wasted like 7 years climbing in substandard shoes.

I'm embarrassed to admit I've owned maybe 45 pairs of Evolv's over the years. I have a pretty good grasp on what their shoes are like.

Eh, at least he has blind, randomized sampling. Granted, the sample size is way too small to form any reliable conclusion, but it's not bad given his resources. If they got an entire gym to do this, it would be awesome.

Btw, again, this entire thread is likely irrelevant because his performance issues are probably due to wearing through the rand and having to get toe caps, not from the rubber itself.

The rubber is fine. It's all psychosomatic. They crushed years ago in shoes we would consider "substandard" today.

grog m wrote:despised the tarantulaces for reference.

Consider it didn't even have Vibram rubber (probably equivalent to the EcoTrax stuff Evolv makes)...

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:I never really hated the rubber, though it's unimpressive. I disliked how soft all of their models got when warm or broken in.

This. I have many friends climbing in Evolvs that just can't stand on small stuff outside, sometimes even inside. Evolv last may start stiff, but it softens way too quickly.

On the other hand, XS Edge, besides durability, is probably too hard of a compound for most n00bs, particularly in the gym. C4 is one of the higher performing compound in the gym environment (unless you have good route-setters that set more technical footwork), which is why it's popular.

Gene S wrote:It's all psychosomatic. They crushed years ago in shoes we would consider "substandard" today.

Today's climbers crush even harder...And if you observe their footwork, especially on overhang routes, climbers of yesteryear tend to do much more foot cut & reset, whereas today climbers can more easily have a foot on the wall at all time & perform moves with very high footholds. Improvements in climbing shoes/rubber have enabled a host of new techniques.

Edited to add:
Years ago, when Erik was still running R&R and Tommy & Beth were still a couple, there was a brief period when almost all Sportiva shoes had switch to XS Grip & all Five Ten shoes had C4. Erik told me (prob b/c I was fussy about shoe rubber) Tommy was requesting his Muira to be resoled with the remnant stock of XSV b/c the new rubbers couldn't take the valley heat. So for those that say it doesn't matter, it mattered very much to Tommy. Not long after that, Vibram release XS Edge (harder than XSV) and XS Grip 2 (harder but didn't seem to smear any worse than XS Grip), but the latter wasn't available for resole until 2-3 years ago.

reboot wrote: Today's climbers crush even harder...And if you observe their footwork, especially on overhang routes, climbers of yesteryear tend to do much more foot cut & reset, whereas today climbers can more easily have a foot on the wall at all time & perform moves with very high footholds. Improvements in climbing shoes/rubber have enabled a host of new techniques.

Huh? My point was stop blaming your shoe rubber when others before you climbed the same routes with lesser quality gear. Ability is the issue. We as modern age people expect our gear to make us better. There are plenty of guys who buy custom $8000 golf clubs and still hit the damn ball in the water.