dawn wall send attempt

Ok, so tommy caldwell and kevin jorgeson are currently on the wall for the send attempt! as i am reading the article on DPM, i realize i don't fully understand what is classified as a 'send' on a big wall climb? they talk about each one getting the pitch on the first, second, or third attempt, and taking a rest day on the wall. So I guess all I am asking is what are the 'rules' of a send on a big wall climb. Regardless, this is very exciting and hopefully goes down! Sorry if this topic has already been posted

In this case: All pitches redpointed in a single push.

But this leaves open the possibility that they fall on a pitch, lower, and try it again, right?

Austin Baird wrote:But this leaves open the possibility that they fall on a pitch, lower, and try it again, right?

That's the definition of redpoint, yes. In this case it apparently means staying on the wall until that happens on every pitch. Probably in sequence.

Eric Engberg wrote: That's the definition of redpoint, yes. In this case it apparently means staying on the wall until that happens on every pitch. Probably in sequence.

Yeah, this is Tommy's definition, which is one of the more restrictive definitions of a big wall RP out there. The only thing more restrictive is a no-falls push, but that is generally reserved for onsight/flash attempts and would be virtually impossible here with multiple hard 14 pitches

Trycycle wrote:In this case: All pitches redpointed in a single push.

Note that they are not both redpointing every pitch (although it looks like they are trying to). Only one of the two has to redpoint each pitch. The other can follow.

Eric Engberg wrote: That's the definition of redpoint, yes. In this case it apparently means staying on the wall until that happens on every pitch. Probably in sequence.

I know what a redpoint is. I just didn't know if they were were pushing for a no-falls ascent (which would still be a redpoint since they've worked every pitch) or if they were allowing themselves to fall and re-try individual pitches.

John Wilder wrote: The latter- I believe they've each already taken multiple attempts on different pitches on this push. It'd be really cool to see this thing finally go down, and then wonder who will be the person to flash the route and when....

I imagine it will take a pretty long time, considering no one's flashed the nose yet, right? And the nose is a number grade or so easier.

This is pretty interesting. I assumed that they mean no falls when talking about redpointing the route. Which made me think the concept of actually sending the thing was pretty insane. But RPs with falls in a single push makes a lot more sense and seems actually doable.

Donesn't even look like winter in The Valley.

rockandice.com/video-galler…

MorganH wrote: I imagine it will take a pretty long time, considering no one's flashed the nose yet, right? And the nose is a number grade or so easier.

There has not yet been a true flash or onsight of any major El Cap free route. This includes Freerider, which is a full 2 number grades easier than the Dawn Wall and much less sustained. The difficulty of flashing or onsighting an El Cap free route is highlighted by the fact that there have several instances in which a very accomplished climber has almost flashed an El Cap route, and even these almost-successes are considered major accomplishments. Notably, Pete of the "Wideboys" had a "sort-of" flash of Freerider this year, in which he tried one pitch, fell off, and then instead of retrying that pitch he did an alternate variation to the pitch, which he flashed. Really not a true flash, since he did fall off, but an impressive effort nonetheless. Some Euro had a similar quasi-flash a few years ago. Ethan Pringle recently almost flashed Freerider over a 2-day period, doing all of the hardest piiches first try but biffing it on a 5.11 pitch high on the route. I imagine he was quite tired. Also, something like 10 years ago Yuji had near-onsights of one or two El Cap routes (Golden Gate?), but again one or two falls on relatively easy terrain stole the onsight from him. This is pretty much it in the history of El Cap almost-flashes.

This all shows how incredibly hard it is to onsight an El Cap route, dramatically harder than the grades would suggest. 5.12+ to 5.13 onsights are pretty common at a modern sport crag, and are warm up grades for people like Pringle and Yuji (Yuji, notably, did the world's first 8c onsight, so he is no slouch at onsighting). It seems that a few factors make an El Cap onsight really hard. First, with that many pitches, there are a lot of chances to blow it. Second, the climbing style on most of those routes is super techy and insecure--a hard style to onsight. Even on the easier pitches (i.e. 5.11), the techical aspect means that a small mistake will spit you off; you can't just crimp down harder to stay on. Lastly, there is the fatigue and logistics factor, which makes a small mistake, due to climbing an eaiser pitch while tired, quite likely.

All of these make a flash of something like the Dawn Wall seem incredibly futuristic. This is not to say this it is impossible, but it must be several generations into the future, at least. Even for something like the Nose, the funky technical nature of the cruxes (notably, the Changing Corners) makes a flash/onsight seem unlikely to happen anytime soon. More likely to occur in the near future would be a flash of something like the Salathe, on which the crux climbing is more straightforward physical crack climbing.

Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled programming. Dawn Wall. I'm excited to watch this unfold.

I'm a bit confused by a something I read online. It appears they are both leading every pitch? I copied this from Rock and Ice:

Jorgeson broke down yesterday's pitches in detail:

Pitch 6, 13c: Tommy led first go and I followed on TR first go (pictured).

Pitch 7, 14a: I sent second go and Tommy sent first go.

Pitch 8, 13d: Tommy sent in three goes and I sent in two. Sharp!

Pitch 9, 13c: I sent second go and Tommy sent first go.

Am I misunderstanding this post? My understanding was that only one of them has to redpoint a pitch in a single push.

Be Esperanza wrote: Am I misunderstanding this post? My understanding was that only one of them has to redpoint a pitch in a single push.

It looks like the style they are going for is that only one of them *has to* lead each pitch, but for many of the hard pitches they are opting to both lead. This way, they both get to lead the crux pitches. This would essentially be a hybrid between and individual redpoint style (where each person leads each pitch) and a team-redpoint style (where one leads and one follows each pitch, swinging leads).

You're correct JCM. They each want to lead the hard pitches which I'm sure will add a lot of time on the wall.

Anyone interested enough in the effort may also be interested in checking out Tom Evans' El Cap Report, which cover the first three days of effort, as of this posting.

elcapreport.com/

Whatever happened with last year when Kevin J hurt his foot and there was some talk that Tommy was going to team up with Chris Sharma to do the route?

Apparently, Sharma got all sketched out when he ran out of weed.

footage from day 2 is up.

rockandice.com/video-galler…

and day 3.

vimeo.com/115734663

Is the protection pre placed on such ascents ?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong...

The bolts were placed as they worked the route over the past years. It sounds from the description of the effort that pro would be placed generally on the first lead of each pitch. At that point if the pitch isn't sent they would pull the rope and lead again with pro already in place. That's my guess. I'd be curious if anyone has any more specific info on this.

It is being characterized as a red point attempt which would indicate that pre-placed pro is totally acceptable.

"Battling." Love it: nytimes.com/2015/01/05/spor…