Can shoes have an impact?

Good question. I wasn't sure if you were talking about climbing in the gym or outdoors? Anyway, I have a lot of big toe pain when I climb a lot so I use mythos and I love them. I just did all the moves on a 5.12c and sent a V7 project in the gym yesterday. Both are the hardest grades I've worked/done, and both were done in my mythos. These are my second pair. I found that I have to size them WAY down to keep them from getting too loose and mushy. They are not a great edging shoe once they have stretched, but as others have said, it's mostly down to technique.

You may find that with a different shoe you will develop your technique. Anecdote: I used to own sloppy and loose coyotes and never learned how to properly use my feet until I switched. Then I shot up several grades in no time.

ChadMartino wrote:Yosemite in the 60s, they weren't using hobnail boots but they sure as heck were sending 5.12+ in regular tennis shoes.

yeah? which ones? (crickets chirping....)

out of all your gear, climbing shoes will have the biggest direct impact on your climbing, without any doubt. as you start climbing harder routes you will notice this a LOT more. like others said - you still need the other factors (technique, fitness, and the right mentality), but a really good pair of shoes is super helpful. i think they also improve your technique and mentality. you will be able to use smaller foot holds, and you will be a lot more confident on your feet.

1967 Macabre Roof (7b+) Ogden, Utah. FA. Greg Lowe. But I stand corrected, it wasn't in the Valley. Just shoot me... :( *sad face*

Slim,

I'm pretty sure there were at least a couple prolific climbers in the boulder area in say the 80s or 90s that climbed a lot of hard routes like up to .12+ in eldo and the boulder area barefoot. So no, climbing shoes don't matter that much.

Eliot,

My advise is stop visiting the proj and stop climbing in the gym. These two things will do more for your climbing than anything else. It might not get you as strong as you think you should be, but it might make you a climber.

I'm confused by your use of the word "stop" in this context.

MC Poopypants wrote:I'm pretty sure there were at least a couple prolific climbers in the boulder area in say the 80s or 90s that climbed a lot of hard routes like up to .12+ in eldo and the boulder area barefoot. So no, climbing shoes don't matter that much.

I've talked to one such climber about this and have witnessed another climber climbing up to such grades within the last few years (who otherwise doesn't climb particularly big grades). They'd readily admit how much big toe strength they needed to develop (and how easily it can be injured from overuse) as well as how much callus it needed for some semblance of edging. More importantly, they wouldn't be able to climb most routes of this grade barefoot.

Besides, with strong enough toes, barefoot is sometimes an advantage (I'm not even talking about fitment cases like a thin crack or a small pocket): you can curl the toes around a high hold & pull down on it in ways unmatched by any downturned climbing shoes.

Nice straw man though...

J. Kincaid wrote:You may find that with a different shoe you will develop your technique. Anecdote: I used to own sloppy and loose coyotes and never learned how to properly use my feet until I switched. Then I shot up several grades in no time.

One of my bigger mistakes in climbing was using worn out and ill-fitting shoes for my first few years climbing. It really kept me from learning a lot about footwork.

I highly recommend playing around with a couple pairs of shoes on different boulder problems. Its often surpring when they do or do not make a difference.

Brian, I completely agree. I was surprised by how much I learned when I got a better pair of shoes. No pair is going to solve all problems but there's no doubt having proper shoes makes a difference especially in learning to trust your feet and being precise.

MC Poopypants wrote:Slim, I'm pretty sure there were at least a couple prolific climbers in the boulder area in say the 80s or 90s that climbed a lot of hard routes like up to .12+ in eldo and the boulder area barefoot. So no, climbing shoes don't matter that much. Eliot, My advise is stop visiting the proj and stop climbing in the gym. These two things will do more for your climbing than anything else. It might not get you as strong as you think you should be, but it might make you a climber.

I go to the gym to get my fix of climbing if my buddy and I can't go outside. Plus I need some website to waste time on when I get back from climbing.

heel hooking in eldo? On beginner routes?

NickinCO's question is right. What routes are on your short term "to do" list?
Also, do you know anyone who could provide some coaching on your technique? Not trusting your feet is pretty basic. Body position could easily be the real problem.

NickinCO wrote:heel hooking in eldo? On beginner routes?

No. Really hard boulder problems. I used it as an example for things I do differently than others and it has been commented on. It'll likely be years, if not a decade before I'm heel hooking in Eldo. Although I did successfully use a heel hook in Eldo on The Monument, I fell off and lowered in the next move though. And that was it.

"NickinCO's question is right. What routes are on your short term "to do" list?
Also, do you know anyone who could provide some coaching on your technique? Not trusting your feet is pretty basic. Body position could easily be the real problem"

Not really. And I've tried capturing a video from the base on some single pitch stuff, and if I even get something worth watching I can't tell what I'm doing wrong. As for short term...that ranges from a 5.8 III on longs to an 11.d in Boulder Canyon that I can almost pull through the crux. And to the one I REALLY want to do: mountainproject.com/v/field…. Apart from those 3, whatever I climb is great with me.

Will I get that one down in short term? Probably not, unless someone really good wants someone to rope gun. But that doesn't mean I won't try to get it done in the short term.

ChadMartino wrote:1967 Macabre Roof (7b+) Ogden, Utah. FA. Greg Lowe. But I stand corrected, it wasn't in the Valley. Just shoot me... :( *sad face*

yeah, and if you knew anything about this route you would know that it is a big hands crack out a massive roof - which is a perfect venue for shoes of that period (or cowboy boots for that matter).

MC Poopypants wrote:Slim, I'm pretty sure there were at least a couple prolific climbers in the boulder area in say the 80s or 90s that climbed a lot of hard routes like up to .12+ in eldo and the boulder area barefoot. So no, climbing shoes don't matter that much. Eliot, My advise is stop visiting the proj and stop climbing in the gym. These two things will do more for your climbing than anything else. It might not get you as strong as you think you should be, but it might make you a climber.

skip and bob? yeah, kind of hard to compare them to the average climber... i love your advice by the way....

Actually, heel hooking and toe hooking are where shoes can make huge difference. Like pulling and injuring your hamstring difference.

I was climbing in some evolv elektras and then got a pair of testa rosas...I had a full grade improvement and probably a grade and a half on overhangs. Good shoes can make a world of difference and I am now building an arsenal of shoes.

ChadMartino wrote:1967 Macabre Roof (7b+) Ogden, Utah. FA. Greg Lowe. But I stand corrected, it wasn't in the Valley. Just shoot me... :( *sad face*

These examples, while very impressive, are irrelevant to the question at hand. Surely, a highly talented climber can climb hard-ish routes with poor footwear. However, if you were to use a time machine to send Lowe or Robbins or Messner a pair of Miuras, they probably would have climbed even harder.

JCM wrote: These examples, while very impressive, are irrelevant to the question at hand. Surely, a highly talented climber can climb hard-ish routes with poor footwear. However, if you were to use a time machine to send Lowe or Robbins or Messner a pair of Miuras, they probably would have climbed even harder.

And how does one become a highly talented climber?? Mmm probably good conditioning and proper training...oh and maybe go outside and get some real stones. Any pair of modern climbing shoes will work, don't need to drop $160+ on solutions. They all have stickier rubber and superior edging compared to anything 15 yrs ago.

I climb harder in my solutions.