Oak Creek: Overlook Beta

Can anyone tell me what the current access situation is for the Overlook? The MP page lists a climbing restriction for routes past the Red Wagon area. Is this current?

Also, is there a topo available, so I can figure out to which routes the restriction applies?

What's the weather like there this time of year? Should I expect afternoon storms over the 4th of July weekend?

Thanks in advance for any info. Climb happy!

Brigette

Brigette wrote:Can anyone tell me what the current access situation is for the Overlook? The MP page lists a climbing restriction for routes past the Red Wagon area. Is this current? Also, is there a topo available, so I can figure out to which routes the restriction applies? What's the weather like there this time of year? Should I expect afternoon storms over the 4th of July weekend? Thanks in advance for any info. Climb happy! Brigette

Marty Karabin has a small useful guide to the Overlook. Yes, expect storms to brew up around 1-2 PM in the afternoon. You need to depart the parking area at 6:00 PM to avoid being locked in the parking lot. See if you can get a copy of Tim Toula's 'A Cheap Way to Fly'

Park across the street to avoid the parking lot hassles.
If you come down the East end walk down, the trail pretty much dead ends at Red Wagon (sigh.) If you want to experience the Overlook in it's more primordial ways, then continue on past Red Wagon. You'll now understand the meaning of the climb, Haltogota.

the overlook should be renamed to "the oven" for the summer climbing season.

Thanks Tradster, Paul. Googling now...

Jon: There's a comment in there somewhere about getting baked, but I'm gonna let it go.

Brigette wrote:Thanks Tradster, Paul. Googling now... Jon: There's a comment in there somewhere about getting baked, but I'm gonna let it go.

whaaat? *giggles* nah brah it's all good!

dude i'm so high...

Thanks, Greg.

Maybe the FS should build a special climber-viewing platform, complete with 8' chain link, like they have a the mines to prevent idiots from falling in...

I'll have the dogs with me, so rapping in and climbing out aren't the best option. I'd imagine we can walk out the same way we walked in, yeah?

Sounds like the storms'll be hitting right about the time the rock is shady enough to climb. In case that's the case, any beta on friendly local watering holes?

Jon: You're so high you're gonna need two ropes to get back down. Hee hee.

Brigette wrote: any beta on friendly local watering holes?

Oak Creek Brewery in Sedona (Coffee Pot Drive & Yavapai Roads).

Great beer, low-key laid back atmosphere, and a big patio.

No food, though.

Greg essentially has the story correct on the Overlook access issue. Way back in 1993 the Coconino County Sheriff raised concerns over the potential rescue of tourists who could fall off the cliff at the overlook while trying to watch the rock climbers. The FS took the recommendation and closed a large portion of the cliff. While many of the classics remain legal to climb a number of excellent routes are now off limits.

Through many meetings with both the Peaks and Sedona FS folks the NACC and the Access Fund were able to broker a deal that could reopen the area to climbing. However, as with all things, there are several hang-ups.

1. The cliff top in the legal climbing area is hammered. The cliff top in the closed area has had fifteen years to heal and is pristine. The FS wanted to make sure that the cliff top remains restored. The only way to do this of course was to make the area near the tourists lead only with a limited number of fixed anchors. The FS does not want to have anything to do with the placing, maintenance, and liability involved with these anchors. No one else really does either, so this is an issue that we are trying to resolve.

2. The FS wants a new access trail to be constructed to access both the open and closed areas. This will be quite expensive and the FS does not have the money to put into this project. We are still exploring how we could potentially finance the trail building.

3. The Overlook sits right on the boarder of the Peaks Ranger District and the Sedona Ranger Distric. Any management plan has to be approved by both districts. In other words, double red tape to cut through.

4. The locals who have been in dialoge with the FS for 15 years now regarding the project are pretty burned out. We really need a few folks who are willing to pick up the torch and finish the project.

Any input that ya'll have on this or any other project in N. AZ will accepted with open arms.

Thanks,

Will Cobb
Access Fund Regional Coordinator
Northern Arizona

P.S. The walk down will be a good way to get dogs and gear to the bottom, but I would still consider taking a dedicated rap line to fix. As far as watering holes go, Beaver Street Brewery and Flag Brewery (in Flagstaff) are excellent. Jackson's Bar/Grill on 89a has recently reopened, but is a little more high end. Best burger in Flagstaff is the new Diablo Burger.

You may find some free camping on Forest Service Road 237, which is on the east side of 89A about a mile or so north of The Overlook proper. When are you going up there?

Will Cobb wrote:2. The FS wants a new access trail to be constructed to access both the open and closed areas. This will be quite expensive and the FS does not have the money to put into this project. We are still exploring how we could potentially finance the trail building. 4. The locals who have been in dialoge with the FS for 15 years now regarding the project are pretty burned out. We really need a few folks who are willing to pick up the torch and finish the project. P.S. The walk down will be a good way to get dogs and gear to the bottom, but I would still consider taking a dedicated rap line to fix.

Thanks for the info, Will.

I've got some experience with the Arizona Trail project, including generating volunteer and community support; if there's anything I can do to help get the trail-building ball rolling, let me know.

I have no experience working with FS and dealing with red tape, but, again, if there's anything I can do, I'm game.

Is a 60m long enough for the dedicated rap line?

Tradster wrote:You may find some free camping on Forest Service Road 237, which is on the east side of 89A about a mile or so north of The Overlook proper. When are you going up there?

Thanks! We're leaving Tucson Friday morning and will be around until Sunday evening.

Brigette wrote: Is a 60m long enough for the dedicated rap line? Thanks! We're leaving Tucson Friday morning and will be around until Sunday evening.

60 meters is plenty long.

I was thinking, be careful about leaving any gear up top, as it can be easily stolen. I know of some one who left a pack at the top and it was ripped off. I may be up that way this weekend. Any ways, have fun and be safe.

Brigette wrote:Jon: You're so high you're gonna need two ropes to get back down. Hee hee.

*giggle*

Tradster wrote:I was thinking, be careful about leaving any gear up top, as it can be easily stolen. I know of some one who left a pack at the top and it was ripped off. I may be up that way this weekend. Any ways, have fun and be safe.

I'm sure we'll be hiking all of our gear down into the canyon with us, but thanks for the heads up.

If you see us up there, say hello.

Hey Bridgette

We were just up there on Saturday.. hot as Hades but fun as hell...

the trail is managable with the pups ... its along the right side of the wall.. Nice routes, good clean climbing... Marty's topo is good - you can find it at PRG...

Have Fun!!!

If you take the trail down be aware of the big dead tree ready to fall anytime.

Shiloh: I've heard that climbing there between about 1 pm and 8 pm is the only way to go. Evidently, that dark rock holds way too much heat from the morning sun.

Has Becka had her baby yet? We're gonna need pics...

Ryan: Thanks for the heads up. We'll be careful.

Brigette wrote:Shiloh: I've heard that climbing there between about 1 pm and 8 pm is the only way to go. Evidently, that dark rock holds way too much heat from the morning sun. Has Becka had her baby yet? We're gonna need pics... Ryan: Thanks for the heads up. We'll be careful.

Bridgette:

There is always Paradise Forks, which is maybe an hour from The Overlook. You can find shade somewhere there during the day, just need to move around. And cleaner cracks than the Overlook. Just sayin'. Maybe I'll see you there. Have a great 4th. Be safe!

Brigette wrote:Shiloh: I've heard that climbing there between about 1 pm and 8 pm is the only way to go. Evidently, that dark rock holds way too much heat from the morning sun..

1. sleep until noon
2. climb until 10pm with headlamps
3. party until 3am
4. repeat steps 1-3 for the duration of your trip
5. have a *ahem* productive day at work on monday