Front Range Benchmarks

Would anyone hazard a guess as to what climbs could be considered benchmarks for their grades? I would guess such climbs would not be height or beta dependent, and have cruxes that aren't easily avoided.

Brian- best idea for a thread I've seen on this site. It should provide lots of useful beta as well as tons of lively debate. It has been my experience that when trying to decide a grade on a new route, an Eldo classic is brought up for comparison (i.e. Rosy Crucifixion). However, thats not to say that a consummate grade can't be found anywhere else. More recently developed areas have the benefit of opinions from out of state experiences.

So here are a few my feeble 5:30 a.m. brain can conjure:

Heavy Weather- 12A
Beta Slave- 10C
Winter Warmer and Topaz- 10D
Industrial Disease, Patrick Hedgeclipper- 11C
Suburbia- 10A

Lats Don't Have Feelings, Shelf 11d
Arms Bazaar, Boulder Canyon 12a
Eat, Drink and Beat Larry, Shelf 12b
Lucid Dreaming, Boulder Canyon 12c
Evictor, Eldo 12c/d

5.8: Bastille Crack, Eldo
5.9+: Plumb Line, Vedauwoo
5.10a: Friday the 13th (pitch 1), Vedauwoo
5.10c: Tagger, Eldo
5.10d: Topaz, Devil's Head
5.11a: Genesis (pitch 1), Eldo
5.11c: Max Factor, Vedauwoo
5.11d: Lats Don't Have Feelings, Shelf
5.12a: Red Neck Hero, Button Rock
5.12b: Plan B, Boulder Canyon
5.12b/c: Granite Rodeo, Devil's Head
5.12c: Sucking My Will to Live, Clear Creek Canyon
5.12d: Anarchitect, Clear Creek Canyon

For Eldo I would say:
5.4 The Bomb
5.5 Tigger
5.6 Calypso
5.7 Bastille Crack or West Overhang of the Wind Tower.
5.8 Werks Up (P1), Ruper
5.8+ Alice in Bucketland
5.9 C'est La Vie (P1)
5.9+ Hair City
5.10a Blind Faith or Chockstone
5.10b The Serpent
5.10c Grandmother's Challenge (Tagger is too height-dependent)
5.10d Rain, King's-X, or Super Slab
5.11a Naked Edge (P1) or Wide Country
5.11b Vertigo Dihedral
5.11c Aerospace (?)
5.11d Le Boomerang (might be height dependant)

After that, it's too friggin' hard for me to say what is benchmark and what is not- I'm flailing not on-sighting anyway.

Good idea, I suggest breaking it up by area. You can't really compare a Shelf 11a to a Turkey Rock, or Eldo 11a.

For Boulder Canyon:

12a -- The Ticket, Earth Voyage (P1)
12b -- Tell Tale Heart, Joyride
12c -- Der Letze Zug, Hot Wire
12d -- Nevermore, Earth Angel
13a -- Vasodilator, Give The Dog a Bone
13b -- The Orb, Heart of Darkness

Mike Anderson wrote:Good idea, I suggest breaking it up by area. You can't really compare a Shelf 11a to a Turkey Rock, or Eldo 11a.

I disagree. By picking a benchmark, grades have a better chance of being consistent statewide. Every new route grade discussion I've ever been part of consists of "it's easier than....., but harder than.....".

And no one compares the difficulty of a crack climb to a face; its crack v. crack or face v. face.

I agree, I think bench marks should be for the entire area and not crag specific. Why should an 11a in Eldo be any softer or harder than an 11a in Boulder Canyon or Shelf? The trouble with this is that some of the new, softer routes would need to be regraded.

adam brink wrote:I agree, I think bench marks should be for the entire area and not crag specific. Why should an 11a in Eldo be any softer or harder than an 11a in Boulder Canyon or Shelf? The trouble with this is that some of the new, softer routes would need to be regraded.

Boulder Canyon sport routes, as graded in both Richard Rossiter's and Mark Rolofson's guidebooks, are MUCH easier than routes of the same grade in Eldorado. Part of this is due to the difference between clipping bolts and placing gear.

I think it's more useful to have separate benchmarks for sport and trad rather than trying to have a single set of benchmarks for both.

I would argue that the difference between some of the Boulder Canyon sport routes and Eldo trad routes is not the difference between clipping bolts and placing gear but that a lot of the new Boulder Canyon sport routes are just way over graded. There are many sport crags in America where the sport routes feel really hard at the grade and are on par with grading at places like Eldo.

The only reason that many Boulder Canyon routes feel easier than a comparably graded Eldo route is the need for the FA party to have a bigger number by their name in the guidebook - it has absolutely nothing to do with clipping bolts vs placing gear....

Horns Mother at the Voo is benchmark 12b! That sonofabitch crack, oh how you made me cry.

.12b!?! Well dangit, how the hell am I supposed to climb that??? I've been looking at that line for a couple of years. I LUV that body sucking OW stuff.

I think Eldo is pretty fair to apply to other areas. The S. Platte is pretty fair, too. It just is not Eldo & climbs differently.

Someone else also told me the Gunks are a real ass-kicker.

I'm bad for benchmarks because of my tall height & long reach, it really helps me or really hurts me.

This is fun to think about. It is very difficult for me to be consistent in my view on what a benchmark is. I think a benchmark climb should represent an average of climbs in that range, most of the climb should be constant at that grade(I.E. no trick moves).

Here are some ideas, from Lumpy.
Batman and Robin 5.6
MainLiner 5.9-
Loose Ends 5.9
J-Crack 5.9
Cheap Date 5.10b

From Vedauwoo
Climb and Punishment 5.9
Friday the 13th 5.10a

Fremont Canyon
Dillingham Blues 5.10b
Wine and Roses 5.11a
Survivor 5.11a

Wish I could spend more time thinking about some 5.7s and 5.8s.

Side note I learned the hard way about Yosemite 5.9. I had to rethink my benchmark. A Yosemite 5.9 put up in the 60's/70's is harder than 5.9 in the 90's. Always look at who established the route and when, remember 5.10 should not exist it looks the same as 5.1 go figure.

Enjoy find your own benchmarks.

I agree with some of this, and not with the rest- anyone who can not separate the difference in grades to account for placing gear or not on their own, obviously is not very good at placing gear, not experienced at it, or not very smart. One should easily be able to tell "how much that cost you."
But yes, I note that the trad climbs tend to be harder at their grade, even at the bocan crags. Maybe because they are older routes nad modern grades are inflated?
You know, I climb in Eldo most of the time, and 12a is HARD in Eldo. Yet in Bocan, I on-sight 12a at least half of the time I try it... Even though I am not used to the rock or the style. What does that say about the grade? I don't know. 3 different people last 2 weeks described me as 'freakishly strong' in one case whilst in the same chuckling about how hard I made something, because I couldn't hold onto a sloper. A boulderer said 'You can sure campus hard for a sport climber' and then when I told him I don't sport-climb much, but rather prefer to go trad he called me an alien. I guess that's a back-handed compliment. So maybe BOCAN just suits me? Too bad I like long multi-pitch trad better.

I am guessing that somewhere out there my antithesis exists- a guy with excelent skill and no power. And I guess he climbs harder in Eldo than in Bocan.

Which brings us to the point of what seems to becoming a debate.
Here if the question is "What *IS* the benchmark?" you have to split it up per area, becuase things are different. Are you trying to figure out what to expect in an area?
Or is the question "What *SHOULD* the benchmark be?" in which case you will have to decide if you want to talk old school or new school or trad or sport or if we grade a climb by its hardest move or give it an overall grade, or if it is super hard and you want to call it "A v7 move to a poor rest, then some v5 to a v11 crux to a full shake out from a no-hands kneebar, then another V11 crux to a V4 finish." (barf)

Then you have to get everyone to agree with you, then rewrite all the guides with all of the authors argeeing with you... Good luck!

-The Web 13b
-Your Mother 12d
-The Monument 12d
-Rainbow Wall 13a <although it would be considered harder at several popular sport areas.
-Anarchitect 12d
-Head Like A Hole 12d
-Predator 12b
-Sonic Youth 13a
-Power Bulge 12b <One of my favorite routes in the Front Range.
-Genesis 12c
-Psycho 12c
-Super Slab 10+
-Naked Edge 11a
-Pony Express 11c
-Captain Crunch 13a <This route climbs sooooo much better than it looks.
-Perilous Journey 11b
-Soul Train 12b
-The Example 13a
- Gym Arete 12a
-Ejection Seat 12b
-Plan B 12b
-Antagonism 12a
-Gyro Captain 12b <bouldery

I think most of the older, established routes on the Front Range are pretty representative of their grades. Thinking about these routes makes me homesick.

I know we are talking about Front Range climbs here, but I think you have to start with America's first 5.9 climb. Open Book in Tahquitz CA. Then move up or down from there. Also the YDS came from here and not Yosemite. So maybe Tahquitz/Suicide Rocks is the benchmark for climbs across the country.

Now that being said I think Tony's list is a good list for the Boulder area. But for the Front Range I think we need to include The Voo, Lumpy and South Plate. From all these I am sure we can come up with a very nice list.

Bob D'Antonio wrote: As to gear and bolts affecting grades. Do Perilous Journey (leading) and then tell me it like the other mid-11's in the canyon.

I thought the grade felt appropriate, although I was much stronger than the route when I did it. It was the same with Clear The Deck. Had I been at my limit on either one of those routes, my mind would have been completely preoccupied with the fall potential.

I will say that PJ is a testament to Dave's vision and skill during that era.

Bob D'Antonio wrote: As to gear and bolts affecting grades. Do Perilous Journey (leading) and then tell me it like the other mid-11's in the canyon.

It's not, but I would know how much it cost me...
If I couldn't figure that out and wasn't hurt, I could TR it and see the difference.
But I don't do many hard climbs at that level of difficulty with that level of consequence. I'm not into the risk. Excitement, sure, but injury, not so much. Jules Verne? Sure. Perilous? No thanks. But fear is different than difficulty and an experienced climber probably knows how to attribute the difference. I can tell if I am gripped by fear or gripped by pump.

Doesn't alot of this goto climbing the rock and not the grade?

Though, I would give exception to pro, I think that should be consistantly rated -- Mountain Project, again, a great source of this info.