Quinn Stevens Denver, CO

[Hide Comment] This comment is in response to Richard Wright's comment on Skimbleshanks in the Catslab. I thought it might be appropriate to place this nature of a comment on the area pages. I confer with RW. Be careful when climbing at the Catslab, Dog House, Primo Wall, and especially the Armory. Some people seem to enjoy shooting their guns in this area. Last summer two of my friend's tires were shot out with a 22 pistol while parked across from the Primo Wall. This 'attack' was unprovoked and was reported to the police. Be careful, and perhaps us climbers should consider getting law enforcement to actually do something about this situation. Jul 27, 2001

Peter Beal Boulder Colorado

[Hide Comment] A few years back climbers were actually shot at while at the Nomad cave. Route 6 can be a fairly creepy road what with casinos, Kermit's, and I-70 one way and Denver and Golden the other. Imagine how different it would be without all the traffic. Jul 30, 2001

Peter Beal Boulder Colorado

[Hide Comment] This refers to the Tyrolean that was up to access the Primo Wall (it's gone now.) Whoever put it up, thanks, but next time can you try to protect the trees that make it possible? Please use some padding or other material between the bark and rope. Otherwise it's more responsible to make the longer approach on foot. Aug 28, 2001

Peter Beal Boulder Colorado

[Hide Comment] A couple of weekends ago we saw a whole family out for target practice across from the Primo Wall. Dad was wailing on a bullseye with a handgun while the kids watched. Then they packed up and got back in the minivan. Just a little Sunday fun. Oct 1, 2001

Anonymous Coward

[Hide Comment] Just a question, who bolted and how hard is the "Squeeze Job" to the left of Sucking and the right of Public Solitude? Was just there today and couldn't believe another route was bolted there, it's kinda tough to call it an [independent] line when it climbs all over both routes! Just thought I would ask Have a good day and thanks for bolting it whoever did. Jun 13, 2002

Peter Beal Boulder Colorado

[Hide Comment] This route is the work of Steve Damboise, and is less contrived than it appears, which may not be saying a lot. The hardest method consistently avoids Sucking's holds and the start and end are totally independent. It seems 5.13b or c depending on the rules you play by. The name is "Squeeze Play." Jul 14, 2002

Anonymous Coward

[Hide Comment] Peter could you list the routes between Mirthmobile and Eternal Recurrance for me. How could there be a route between Sucking and Public Solitude when it says Public Solitude is to the left of Sucking? I have been to the cliff many times and the way I see it is: Mirthmobile, P.Solitude,Sucking,Shine,Unknown,Unknown,Primevil,Eternal Recurrance.What is the deal? Thanks Jul 16, 2002

Peter Beal Boulder Colorado

[Hide Comment] Here's the list left to rightHale-Bopp 5.10+/11-, Mirthmobile 10-, Killer Pillar, 10, Public Solitude 13, Squeeze Play 13/13+, Sucking 12+, Grim Aura (LInk-up) 13+, Shine 13+, Primeval 13+, Eternal Recurrence 13+, City Slicker 12-, Suburban Cowgirls 11+, Flying Cowboys 12+, Breakfast Club 12-, Groan Up 11+, River Run 13, Movin Out 12 Hope this helps Jul 22, 2002

rich purnell

[Hide Comment] Anybody know anything about this "Ken Tanks" route FA, grade etc... Aug 7, 2002

Anonymous Coward

[Hide Comment] Peter - sorry about the tree. I actually felt bad about the bark damage, but didn't notice till the tryolean was up. Looks like some tosser dismantled the traverse and made off with the gear, anyhow. Aug 15, 2002

Tony Cappa

[Hide Comment] Does anybody know where the tyrolean went? Or if there is a good place to cross the river (other than when it's frozen over in the wintertime? I like the Primo Wall... Aug 25, 2002

Anonymous Coward

[Hide Comment] The Tyrolean is downstream from the Nomad cave pretty much straight across from moving out and hangman. It sags pretty badly and should be avoided in the rain. BTW, My borther (Dan Miller), my roomate ( Rossin Richardson ) and myself (Craig Miller) were actually the ones who were shot at in the Primo cave. This episode went on for about 45 minutes back in 91 or 92 and ended with 7 Colorado State Patrol cars arresting the wacko perpatrator. At the time he had a mini 14 semi-automatic assault rifle with collapsible butt, scope ( he claimed he didn't see us), and 50 round banana clips, a loaded pistol in his pants, and a monster hunting knife. He took his first volley while I had just gotten off Predator and my brother and I felt the air move next to our heads ( we were 3-5 feet apart ). He then proceeded to shoot at us anytime we became visible for the next 45 minutes, including at Rossin while he being the only one with shoes bolted and barely made it around the cave exit towards the bridge before flagging down a car and calling for help.It looked like a movie but was a whole lot scarier watching the dirt and branches fly behind Rossin.In the end the guy got off with wreckless endangerment as there was no proof that he saw us, although from his vantage point near the now tyrolean it was pretty clear, and the fact that clear creek is a "free fire zone". The route now called Pro-Choice was originally called Bad Day Mining in psycho boy's honor...... Sep 18, 2003

Mark MacClary Denver

[Hide Comment] Looks like the tyrolean traverse is down, I can't tell if it was cut or just washed out. Anyways I would be willing to provide rope, biners and whatever else is necessary to put it back up, but I need some help. Looking for anyone that would be willing to help and has the know how.Thanks Mar 22, 2004

ac	[Hide Comment] Just wanted to comment that the hike in from upstream is not that bad. The tyrolean is often missing or rigged too loose so I've often opted for the hike. Mar 23, 2004

Peter Beal Boulder Colorado

[Hide Comment] My recommendation is don't reinstall the Tyrolean. It isn't necessary and is in a place that makes it prone to being messed with. The trail is about 15 minutes and makes a good warm-up for the climbs. Plus the hike/scramble keeps the crowds down a little. Mar 28, 2004

Anonymous Coward

[Hide Comment] Mark, I'll help set that tyrolean if you want. But, for the record, I don't have a problem with just pulling up my skivvies and wading across. The water only comes up to mid-thigh anyway (depending on your height; i'm 5'10").email me at runclimbplay@hotmail if you want. Mar 30, 2004

cranshark

[Hide Comment] Please don't put up a tyrolean. The reason that it gets taken down is because it is an extreme hazard to kayakers. Please use the hike instead. Jun 25, 2004

Darren Mabe

[Hide Comment] Then we putz ze tyrol higher. Wouldn't that just make more of a challenge for the kayakers? Kind of like climbing rock in the rain? Fun fun. Jun 25, 2004

Tod Anderson

[Hide Comment] How can a tyrolean that installed high enogh to actually be usable to cross the stream be a hazard to kayakers? Are they standing on their kayaks & doing gymnastics? Steel cables seem to be the only answer to this problem. They're less visible & harder to cut with a knife. If it is kayakers, maybe we should do some more adventure kayak trundling from river wall. Jun 29, 2004

cranshark

[Hide Comment] I'm not sure what the answer is or will be. Climbers have attracted the attention of BLM and there is growing concern. My recommendation is to keep a low profile. Climb, be safe, have fun. If you get hurt, make it look like a hiking accident!) Jun 30, 2004

Richard M. Wright Lakewood, CO

[Hide Comment] I had an opportunity to ask some local kayakers if they had any concerns about the tyros. Thay all indicated that they hardly even noticed, let alone cared about, the ropes strung over the river. More likely may be the fly fishermen whose lines get caught. I've noticed that tyros over rough water tend to remain in place much longer than those over quiet water, consistent with the argument. This suggests that when planning the tyro either place it very high (as in the case of the new Mission Wall tyro) or aim for water that is not conducive to fishing. By the way, the steel cable that Bernard G. placed in the SSV was also chopped - so even a cable is not fail-safe, much better certainly, but not fail-safe. Jul 1, 2004

micah stocker

[Hide Comment] As if anyone cares, but I recently replaced the Tyrol to get to Primo Wall. This morning while crossing it I found myself untangling a fishing line and lure from the rope. I think I should have put more thought into where I placed the tyrol. However, it is the first one I have ever put up, and it seemed like a good place for it. When you see fishermen doing there funky casts under the tyrol, just vibe them until they leave. Or let them know ahead of time about the overhead danger. Should none of these tactics work, and a line gets stuck in the tyrol, kindly zip out there and untangle it for them. The fishermen will still probly be pissed, but at least they might think twice about cutting the rope. Thank you. Oct 12, 2004

ac

[Hide Comment] I'm looking for sun/shade beta on the Primo Wall and Crystal Tower. The description above says north facing, but these formations pretty clearly look SE facing in the guidebook. Also there are many comments on this page discussing climbing there in March, where a shady N-facing crag would be less than ideal. So, which is it? When are these crags in the shade and what direction do they face? Thanx... Jul 25, 2005

chris deulen Denver-ish, CO

[Hide Comment] The Primo Wall faces east. Maybe a little south. But mostly east. Summer is primo for the Primo Wall, though it does get a little sun starting in February. The large ridge on the east side of the road keeps the sun away during the colder months. Find a warm day with no wind, and it's not too bad in the winter/spring. The trees also keep the sun out a bit. Good for summer, bad for winter. Feb 20, 2006

Scott Hahn

[Hide Comment] Does anyone know why the tyro at/to the Primo Wall has been cut? Mar 15, 2006

chris deulen Denver-ish, CO

[Hide Comment] I'm not quite sure, but it could have something to do with the county. My friend and I have put up 2 tyrols at the New River Wall, which is in JeffCo. The last one, he left with a note with his email in a zip-lock bag. JeffCo contacted him and said that: A. It's an eyesore (I personally disagree with this subjective argument) and B. It's a danger (i.e. someone who doesn't know what they're doing could come along, "play" on it and end up drowning or "getting hurt.") Personally, I don't mind the look of a tyrolean. They're actually pretty hard to see unless you know what you're looking for. As far as danger goes, people don't need help getting hurt. They seem to do a fine job just by themselves, regardless of whether it happens on a rope crossing a river or skipping rocks. Though the Primo Wall resides in Clear Creek County, I doubt they have different standards or are climber-friendly. Thus, the ignorance and inability to logically reason that reigns among those in authority prevails again. Although, it could just have been some random fisherman, though I find it odd that the rope was cut on the north side (climbing side) of the river... Apr 6, 2006

Monty Golden, CO

[Hide Comment] Sweetness, tryol is safe again. Replaced the yellow rope with a 11.6 static line. Your ass doesn't skim the water anymore. The red one could probably be replaced soon, but that's way beyond my budget. I would definitely help someone replace it though. Jul 7, 2008

Trevor Ackerman

[Hide Comment] So what's the secret to clipping into and out of a tyrolean traverse when there's nothing to stand on except the foot loops? I ended up not even using the foot loops because I just swing around wildly in them. Sep 8, 2008

Darren Mabe

[Hide Comment] Trevor. One arm pull-up. Heel hook the line. Clip. Reverse to unclip. Sep 8, 2008

Mikeco Highlands Ranch CO

[Hide Comment] Reversing that Tyrolean to come back to the car SUCKED with the force of a thousand black holes!!!!! I may go downstream next time and walk back up. If there even is a next time. Nov 18, 2008

dj double-a

[Hide Comment] Found some draws in the talus today. I'd be glad to get them back to the owner who can ID them. Jun 20, 2009

Keith H. North Englewood, CO

[Hide Comment] Just a heads up, yesterday I went to Primo and came back, got in the car found a tick on me :( also the week before one of my friends came home with a tick. I highly advise checking yourself for the little bastard bugs when you get to your car. Apr 13, 2011

Stephen Nance Boulder, CO

[Hide Comment] There is another ledge to the right of Suburban Cowgirl. I cannot find these/this (might be only one) routes in any guid book. This route starts out on small crimps then throws to a ledge that is perhaps 3 feet long and angles up and left (very obvious). Get established and go up to terrible sidepulls in a seam or go out left to another slopey ledge. From there, it is a mantle to the anchors. The anchors look new and the bolts are pretty far apart from another. Seemed like a very hard move to the lip. It is only 3ish bolts, I think. What route is this? Any ideas? P.S.- the ticks ARE bad here. Both my partner and I found ticks on us. Thanks, Stephen May 19, 2011

Jay Samuelson Colorado

[Hide Comment] Hey Stephen, you were looking at Crying Flyboys. May 20, 2011

Tzilla Rapdrilla

[Hide Comment] Euro mess. Jul 29, 2011

Rob Eison Denver, CO

[Hide Comment] The upper rope sheath on the tyrolean has frayed and needs to be replaced. The lower rope is still intact, so the tyrolean is still functional, but it has become much more difficult to pull across because of the tattered sheath. I have plenty of cord to donate but not really the time to replace it right now. Any takers? Sep 17, 2011

Luke Childers

[Hide Comment] Let's all give a shout out to the efforts of Jay and Kevin for fixing the Tyrol..!! That kinda work is difficulty and not exactly the funnest thing to do, but they really did a nice job and should be noted for there efforts!!!! So thxs, guys!! I appreciate your efforts and your time!!!! Oct 22, 2011

Curt MacNeill Boulder, CO

[Hide Comment] It's sad that I have to even post this, but someone has been stealing draws off the lower portion of alot of routes as of Fall 2012. By the looks of it, it's some dumbass gumbie using a stick clip, since it's only the first bolt or two of the routes. Seriously, who wants old, junky quickdraws? Is there like an eBay business of selling old fixed draws that I don't know about? All I got to say is watch out, 'cause if I catch anyone doing this, they're gonna get a serious ass whooping. And oh yeah, I'm gonna replace all the draws stolen with bomber steel perma-draws, and I'm gonna use locktight. I'd like to see people get these babies off. C'mon, people..... Oct 14, 2012

Rob Eison Denver, CO

[Hide Comment] It's been going on since the spring and at least one person's been caught by Jay Samuelson already. Although I'm not generally an advocate of permadraws all over crags, this is getting ridiculous. If you leave any draws on the first 2 bolts on any of these routes, expect them to be pilfered in a week. I've accidentally forgotten to pull mine off the lower part of Shine when I've been in a hurry and a week later...Gone! If there's a consensus in the community to permadraw the classics here, I'll pony up some cash and gear to help out. mountainproject.com/v/draw-… Oct 27, 2012

Tzilla Rapdrilla

[Hide Comment] Here's a reason why not to add fixed draws - nobody maintains them and they become hazards: rockandice.com/news/2301-fa… Oct 29, 2012

Peter Beal Boulder Colorado

[Hide Comment] Permadraws on a closely bolted 35-foot cliff seems over the top. This is not the Motherlode or Wicked Cave here. The cliff is not even very steep. FWIW I never left draws overnight on any of the projects I did here. It takes a few minutes to put them in bolt-to-bolt and only a little longer to clean. Oct 30, 2012

Richard M. Wright Lakewood, CO

[Hide Comment] Tzilla's comment is right on target and underscores what any seasoned climber knows: top rope through your own gear and not through in situ rap anchors, and rap from an in situ station rather than lowering from the station. Both practices increase wear on the in situ gear, generate sharp edges, and increase the likelihood of cutting a rope - just as lowering from a permadraw. Increased traffic on a route like Sucking My Will only emphasizes the rationale for using one's own gear. Like Peter said, it's not that hard to get the gear up, and you guarantee its integrity. Oct 30, 2012

Rob Eison Denver, CO

[Hide Comment] Excellent points of course. Those risks should be obvious even for the not-so-seasoned and I certainly agree. The unfortunate reality at Primo is that, for the 3 years since I moved back to Denver, draws have been a fairly permanent fixture on Sucking, Public Solitude, Ahine, Primeval, even Flying Cowboys. The New River Wall suffers simlarly. I don't know when the paradigm shifted, but this wasn't the case when I first started climbing here a decade ago. Sucking now has Climbtech steel permadraws because of the continual traffic it receives though it's unclear how that decision ultimately came about. Nor do I know whose draws have been donated on many of these routes, but I certainly have taken extra time to inspect their integrity as anyone should. Having climbed many years at a number of crags where permadraws are accepted such as Jailhouse, Rifle, Motherlode, etc., I understand the importance of the local community taking responsibility for the safety of any fixed gear and replacing any suspicious equipment. There are a handful of regular CCC climbers who make an effort as informal stewards replacing anchors and bolts, removing unsafe draws, etc. If the argument against fixed draws is motivated by a concern for the safety of other climbers, then the counter argument for steel permadraws on a high traffic crag with hard routes like Primo is not unreasonable and is arguably superior to the current excess tat. This discussion is ongoing among CCC regulars and has also been driven by both the unfortunate status quo of leaving draws on many routes and the frustration of the ongoing battle against draw thieves in the canyon. Personally I agree, hang your own draws and clean each time and you should be reassured. I've done that more often than not and will continue to do so. But I'll also admit that, with a full-time profession and 2 small kids, an extra 30 minutes not utilized repeatedly hanging and cleaning draws on the crux clips of a route like Shine is actually very precious to me. So I realize that I'm not completely innocent in these developments, but life is complicated isn't it? Oct 31, 2012

Tzilla Rapdrilla

[Hide Comment] Rob, first thanks for taking the initiative to help out with some items in CCC, your efforts makes the area better for all of us. It appears that you are trying to address a condition arising from abandoned or intentionally donated fixed draws. It seems that there are three options for dealing with sub-par draws left on routes, they can be removed, left as is, or upgraded. For the last two options, these draws then become something that the climbing community needs to continually maintain. It seems to me that fondling the crabs on the fixies to make sure they haven’t become knives takes more energy than just hanging your own draws on the way up. There are places that fixed draws do make sense, like the Motherlode, but the Motherlode is a wee bit steeper than Primo. Also, the Red has an active and extensive stewardship community that is actively addressing the fixed gear issues. Finally, there is the visual impact associated with fixed draws. Primo is actually on private land, and it may be in our best interest to keep our presence as low key as possible. Nov 2, 2012

Jay Samuelson Colorado

[Hide Comment] I added a static line to the tyrol yesterday which seemed to help a bit. It needs to be tensioned down a bit more as I didn't have my ascender with me, but it definitely helped. Could probably cut down one of the old lines as well. May 13, 2013

Monty Golden, CO

[Hide Comment] Thanks for all or your community service, Jay! May 13, 2013

mlauwers

[Hide Comment] Made our first visit to Primo Wall and had a great day of climbing. The area with the climbs is spectacular with an awesome surrounding. The hike back towards the climbing area though is pretty sketchy at a couple parts. There are a couple ropes tied in to help up/down at the steeper parts. I suggest the tyrolean!! (Thanks to those who put that in and keep it in good repair.) Jul 11, 2013

Rob Eison Denver, CO

[Hide Comment] A pile of quickdraws and a daisy chain have been under Hangman for the past few weeks. I have them now. So if they're yours, pm and me and describe them and I'll get them back to you. May 2, 2014

Andy Riley Barcelona, ES

[Hide Comment] I may have left a bright green Outdoor Research jacket at the crag last weekend. Has anyone seen it? My number is 303-868-1317. Nov 3, 2014

Ryan Gajewski Longmont, Co.

[Hide Comment] Hey guys, I am currently replacing the tyrolean and was wondering if anyone had some static line they would like to donate. I currently put up two dynamic lines as a temporary fix, but they will stretch out before long. PM me is anyone would like to donate, I will be happy to put the labor in! Aug 8, 2015

suzieqNM

[Hide Comment] I left a purple sling with a few Petzl and BD quickdraws at this crag a few weeks ago. If anyone has seen this gear, please message or give me a call at 404-345-7307, thanks! Mar 7, 2016

Silent Chuffer

[Hide Comment] Pair of shoes found here on 7/29/16. PM me if they're yours, and I'll get them back to you. Jul 29, 2016

Mark E Dixon Possunt, nec posse videntur

[Hide Comment] I added two static lines to the tyrolean and cut down the looser of the two ropes that were in place. Hopefully good for another year or two. Just about wading time anyway! Aug 20, 2016

SCherry Boulder, CO

[Hide Comment] Lost a set of keys (with an automatic lock/unlock device) at Primo or the Armory on 2/21/17. If anyone finds them, that would be killer. Thanks. Feb 22, 2017

Rui Ferreira Boulder, CO

[Hide Comment] Found a pair of belay gloves and belay device on 3/14/17. Let me know if it is yours. Mar 14, 2017

Lies Olaerts California

[Hide Comment] Lost my sunglasses at Primo (at/near the bench) yesterday 5/6/17. If anyone finds them, I would be so thankful.... May 7, 2017

Dustin Anderson

[Hide Comment] Found a pair of 5.10 Dragons today at the base of sucking. PM me, and I'll get them back to you. Also found a guidebook. May 21, 2017

Will Shaw Hillsboro, OH

[Hide Comment] As of 7/25/17, it looks like the webbing holding up the ladder to the Tyrolean was cut down some time in the last week. The ladder and hardware are still there, but it's no longer under tension clipped directly to the rope. If you're headed there soon and have some extra webbing, everything else is still in place. We didn't have the time or webbing to put it back up today. Jul 25, 2017

Josh Thompson Golden, CO

[Hide Comment] I left a theraband and some warm-up stuff at the Primo Wall. I'm picking it up tomorrow morning, so if you're there tonight (Friday, 9/1/17), please leave it. I realized I left it once traffic had already set in, and I think it would take an hour to make it back up the canyon. I'll delete this comment once I retrieve the gear. Sep 1, 2017

Mike Seidel

[Hide Comment] Does anyone know what happened to the ladder up to the tyrolean on the East Colfax side of the creek? It was in good condition as far as I could tell the last time I used it, and now it's gone. Apr 29, 2018

Kevin Capps Golden, CO

[Hide Comment] With initiative from the Foothills Climbing Community and a generous donation of static rope from Sterling Ropes, Jason Antin and I were able to replace the Primo Area tyrolean today. It was replaced with a brand new 11mm static rope from Sterling. Jun 25, 2019

chris deulen Denver-ish, CO

[Hide Comment] It ain't that hard, but there is a technique to crossing a tyrolean. Please don't cross unless you're going to climb, which puts unnecessary strain and wear/tear on the ropes and can create a line when people might need to get going. Otherwise, please walk around. Remember that returning is more difficult that going over, so if you're at all unsure if you have the strength to pull yourself across, DON'T! (you probably shouldn't be climbing at the Armory/Crystal Tower/Primo/Nomad if you can't cross the tyrolean anyway, no offense). Cheers! youtu.be/GjGiFUyfTOA. Jul 15, 2020

Greg H

[Hide Comment] ***IMPORTANT**** THE TYROL IS ABOOUT TO BREAK DO NOT USE! ONE ROPE MAY HOLD YOU.... BUT MAY NOT... May 15, 2021

Greg H

[Hide Comment] mountainproject.com/photo/1…. May 15, 2021

Kevin Capps Golden, CO

[Hide Comment] I replaced the core shot rope on the tyrolean today with an 11mm Sterling static rope donated by a generous climber in the community. When I connected it to the bolted anchor, I extended the attachment point with 4 quicklinks, so the knot hangs free and doesn’t rub against the rock anymore. The other rope has a little bit more life, but I do have enough rope to replace it when it is time. Please clip into both ropes, always! Jun 11, 2021

Kevin Capps Golden, CO

[Hide Comment] The upper rope on the tyrollean was replaced today. Now, both ropes are new. I noticed that the lower rope was getting worn down faster than normal, the sheath looks pretty rough after only about a month. There’s just too much traffic on it from people playing around on it from the East Colfax area. The best solution might be to move it to where the climbers at East Colfax can’t see it. Stay tuned! Jul 19, 2021

Kevin Capps Golden, CO

[Hide Comment] We replaced the tyrol today with two brand new 11mm static ropes. Thank you, Nadya and Anthony, for the rope donations and also Nadya and Ryan for helping with the replacement. For future reference, each strand needs to be cut to at least 80 feet, maybe 90 feet would make it more manageable. Jun 6, 2024