YDS - / + in 5.10 and above?

I just noticed on the grading chart that 5.10- is between 5.10a and 5.10b. Also 5.10+ is between 5.10c and 5.10d. Shouldn't it go -, a, b, c, d, + ??

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No, because then why wouldn't it be 5.10a, b, c, d, e, f.

5.10- does not mean easier than 10a. Someone else will explain the subtleties.

+ and - are generally used when you do not have sufficient certainty of the grade to give it a letter grade. For instance, if you think that a route might be 10c or 10d, but you really aren't quite sure, you can just give it 5.10+. This indicates that it is in the upper part of the 5.10 range, but you aren't sure exactly where. It is deliberately a slightly more vague system.

An example of this system applied well is in Bloom's guidebook for Indian Creek. The climbing there is hard to grade because of hand size dependency, so he doesn't even try to give letter grades and sticks to a +/- system. In this system, a "5.11-" is in the 11a or 11b zone, a "5.11" is mid-11 (llb or 11c), and a "5.11+" should be 11c or 11d.

Plus/minus grades are a better alternative than slash grades, in my mind. When a route is graded 11c/d, this generally indicates that it is a difficulty between 11c and 11d, thereby creating an even more minutely specific grading scale. On the other hand, "5.11+" is a way of accepting the inherent subjectiveness of grades, while still providing adequate information about the difficulties to expect.

Also chances are if it is rated 5.9+ is is some where between 5.10a and 5.11b,
beware the very old routes up here in the north east.

Eli Buzzell wrote:Also chances are if it is rated 5.9+ is is some where between 5.10a and 5.11b, beware the very old routes up here in the north east.

JCM wrote:+ and - are generally used when you do not have sufficient certainty of the grade to give it a letter grade. For instance, if you think that a route might be 10c or 10d, but you really aren't quite sure, you can just give it 5.10+. This indicates that it is in the upper part of the 5.10 range, but you aren't sure exactly where. It is deliberately a slightly more vague system.

Eli Buzzell wrote:Also chances are if it is rated 5.9+ is is some where between 5.10a and 5.11b, beware the very old routes up here in the north east.

Stagg54 wrote: Could even range into the .12s