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By Bill Lawry
From: New Mexico
Mar 29, 2008
|Marc Beverly's guide "Jemez Rock & Pecos Area" (2006) indicates that Bandelier National Monument prohibits bolting in this area.|
By George Perkins
From: Los Alamos, New Mexico
Mar 30, 2008
Not sure that Jemez Rock is accurate on who "owns" the Y, based on maps by LANL and elsewhere, but more importantly where the fences and signs are.
This is LANL/DOE government property, as indicated by signs on the fence next to the highway. Signs on trees 20' south of the South Rim say 'NPS boundary', so that is where the northern extent of Bandelier's Tsankawi district begins. It was discussed that this area might have been included in the LANL-San I land swap deal (which would've likely resulted in its closure), but it was ultimately not included in that deal.
Because it is DOE land and not Los Alamos County Open Space [like the rest of White Rock - except Potrillo (also DOE) and Sewer Crag - (San I Pueblo)], rules about fixed gear might be different here, but most likely nobody with authority has thought about this, which is good because: currently, climbing is allowed.
In the White Rock bolting agreement , the Y is considered ok for installing bolts for anchors (because many of the trees are dead), and off-limits for installing new bolts on the climbs.
The two climbs that had lead protection bolts at the Y do not have hangers. If you must lead them, bring your own hangers, and take 'em off when you're done, or someone else probably will.
Since it only takes one motivated self-righteous individual to remove bolts, anyone installing anchors at the Y or any of the "trad cliffs" at White Rock should be aware that there's a chance the same person who removed previous bolted anchors at the Playground and Potrillo might come back.
By Chris Wenker
From: Santa Fe
Mar 31, 2008
I can't remember where I saw this, but a while ago I read somewhere that the canyon in which the "Y" climbs are located is on land administered by the New Mexico Department of Transportation. When I read that, I went so far as to check that out on the maps at the Santa Fe county assessor's office. If I recall correctly, their GIS maps supported that DOT land status, I think as far south as the southern canyon wall. Although, having worked at the county myself, I wouldn't put 100% confidence in their GIS land parcel boundaries (they're not meant to be pinpoint accurate anyway). If the Y is indeed DOT land, I don't know what that might mean as far as access; also, I'm not entirely clear if it was DOT land or just a DOT easement.
I'll try to find where I originally saw that information. Anyone? Maybe in an old archived LAM google discussion forum?
Edit Update: Here it is: Jackson's 2006 Falcon guide book, page 191. "Management of The Y is by the New Mexico Highway Department."
Edited edit: Others 'in the know' have now told me that there is actually a strip of DOE land between the highway ROW land and the boundary of Bandelier land, so Jackson is probably wrong (as is the county's map). George's comment above is actually probably more accurate regarding the land status of the crag.
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