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Jul 8, 2009
Bucky
Interesting take Killis, pretty even handed, and I sure as shit laughed at your post.
I have a couple of questions.

One, are all of this guy Goss' routes chipped, or does he put up nice natural lines as well (not that this should excuse chipping).

Two, is it culturally acceptable around Utah to chip at will....or is it just ok at choss piles?
I mean, out where I live in California, the accepted ethic can very by the mile. i.e. I know sport climbing areas near the Valley that are manufactured and its accepted, but if you did that to anything in the Ditch or up in the Meadows you would get killed by the same folks who did the chipping at the glued up choss ampitheater that they call home in the winter season. Seems like this might be the same at Red Rocks too. i.e. you can chip in the pullouts, but the high country is more or less off limits.

Either way, I think chipping and gluing is douchtastic, and its even worse that this guy Goss is a guide. I hope he doesn't pass that ethic on to people he guides, especially if they wouldn't be smart enough to know the difference between chipping choss and chipping in Toulumne. Further, I am not sure that just because he published a guidebook, that it should excuse him from vandalizing rock, chossy or not.
J. Albers
From Colorado
Joined Jul 11, 2008
2,221 points
Jul 9, 2009
Avatard
Three things:

1. DABDABDABDABDABDAB

2. Killis Howard's post rules because it tells it like it is. See that kids? The post is obviously opinionated but it contains a certain amount of this thing called objectivity.

2. I suppose once you climb on rock with bolted on holds, a 2-3 foot tick mark is totally acceptable. Wait....who am I kidding - no matter how hard it is, the tick mark to the giant artificial foothold is almost as lame as the glued on holds.

3. The word "douchtastic" in the previous post totally makes up for the mis-spelling of the word "vary".
Shaft
From Salt Lake City
Joined Jul 6, 2007
105 points
Jul 9, 2009
Bucky
Wow, someone who knows how to correctly writ them thar word thingys.
Touche' Shaft.
Yes, the ethics in California are very variable.
J. Albers
From Colorado
Joined Jul 11, 2008
2,221 points
Sep 26, 2009
  Third bolt on last pitch of cheetah
Why did nobody tell me about this?
WTF?

Is it still there?
mikewhite
Joined Feb 28, 2007
101 points
Sep 26, 2009
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
Shawn Mitchell wrote:
Great actor. Stupid movie.


Not stupid. Stupendous!
Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,494 points
Oct 19, 2009
Nothing to really add here,
I just wanted to post another pu.. -- cat shot

2009 Here we COME!!!!
2009 Here we COME!!!!
Buff Johnson
Joined Dec 19, 2005
1,494 points
Oct 19, 2009
Buff - nice kitty pic.

What's this world coming to? Balloon boy, stick clipping up a route, Summit Ford treats people like shit, and now this.

I'm going climbing.
Brandy Persson
From Vail, CO
Joined Sep 19, 2009
5 points
Jan 21, 2010
Every single day.
All you hippies need to stop worrying about the environment and open your eyes to the future of our sport Kurt Ross
From Boulder, colorado
Joined Apr 8, 2009
302 points
Jan 21, 2010
Colonel Mustard
Heh. I like ^^^^ this.

I saw and took a photo of the same setup at crawdad canyon. That is not the ethic there, but it's there. There was that overhanging jug fest and some crazy rope rig right by it. WTF summed up my reaction stumbling upon that nonsense.
Colonel Mustard
Joined Sep 13, 2005
1,359 points
Jan 21, 2010
The Shield
Funny. I think this is the third time I"ve seena complaint about the privately owned Crawdad Canyon, but no one ever posts photo's of privately owned quarries. Or how about mine shafts... or even the dugout home sites along Kane springs road in Moab.

Its private and its so minor its not even worth the posting.
Sam Lightner, Jr.
From Lander, WY
Joined Apr 9, 2006
2,224 points
Jan 21, 2010
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008
Avery N wrote:
This whole "transition from gym to outside" thing is becoming a real issue! Seriously, though -- that's horrible.

AGree it's horrible, BUT as an old traddie', well how is this any less damage or different from a string of bolts under there and calling it a 'sport' route? A bolted or glued on hold vs a bolt hanger? I see little difference.
Woodchuck ATC
Joined Nov 29, 2007
3,090 points
Jan 22, 2010
sloping
Whoever did that deserves to have this ass kicked, both legs shattered, and their wallet stolen. koreo
From Denver, CO
Joined Aug 24, 2009
90 points
Jan 22, 2010
Stabby
koreo wrote:
Whoever did that deserves to have this ass kicked, both legs shattered, and their wallet stolen.

Missed the part about private land?
What if they smashed the boulder to pieces and sold it to a stone mason?
I think its more of a why bother question
Mike Lane
From Centennial, CO
Joined Jan 21, 2006
839 points
Jan 22, 2010
Mike Lane wrote:
Missed the part about private land? What if they smashed the boulder to pieces and sold it to a stone mason? I think its more of a why bother question


You said it, Mike (and btw smashing the rock up to build our nice backyard patios would be perfectly acceptable). With everything wrong in the world here we are wasting our time trolling and whining about something like this (I said we, I'm a shmuck, too). If we felt the need to be concerned about anything in this context that might actually matter how about the heinous chemicals and production process involved in manufacturing the holds? We're all ok with millions of them plastered all over our indoor walls but freak out when half a dozen of them are bolted to worthless pile of choss in the middle of the desert? Seriously, we all need help.
beavs
From Ft. Collins, CO
Joined Feb 20, 2006
271 points
Feb 4, 2010
Which way again?
As far as Red Rock goes, the canyons are not exempt from the BS. Didn't take a lot of photos until recently (see my posting "What's wrong with this picture?") but I know that the "12d" "extension" to Cloud Tower, often called the Astroman of Red Rocks, has a chipped choss corner that is bolted though it would take gear. Where McQuade went, chipping went.

That's one example. Rap bolting, TR headpointing tactics on multipitch climbs to produce FAs as well as contrived "X rated" FFAs of longstanding aid routes after-you guessed it:lots of TRing, and, yes, chipping have found their way way out yonder.

Nothing is sacred, so it seems.
Cunning Linguist
Joined Feb 15, 2007
2,478 points
Feb 4, 2010
Trundling a death block. Photo by Dan Gambino.
Killis Howard wrote:
That's one example. Rap bolting, TR headpointing tactics on multipitch climbs to produce FAs as well as contrived "X rated" FFAs of longstanding aid routes after-you guessed it:lots of TRing, and, yes, chipping have found their way way out yonder. Nothing is sacred, so it seems.



The only thing I have a problem with is chipping.

There's also folks putting up plenty of long routes ground up with no previewing and no bolts.
Last time I checked you were talking trash on them as well.

josh
J. Thompson
From denver, co
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,739 points


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