Route Guide - iPhone / Android - Partners - Forum - Photos - Deals - What's New - School of Rock
Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
WTF?
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
By Tyson Anderson
From Las Vegas, NV
Jun 1, 2009
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat

www.mountainproject.com/v/utah/saint_george/crawdad_canyon_v>>>

WTF
WTF


FLAG
By Aimee Bates
Jun 1, 2009
Gripped...

Did they send it!?
JK... It's not funny at all.


FLAG
By Avery N
From Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2009
Canadian Rockies Ice 2008.

This whole "transition from gym to outside" thing is becoming a real issue!

Seriously, though -- that's horrible.


FLAG
By Eli Helmuth
From Estes Park, CO
Jun 1, 2009
Eli on the FA of Grizzly (M9) at the Den.

This was going on at Smith Rocks in the Cocaine Gulley and other areas of the park back in the 80's...

Suppose it's not as bad as drilled handholds (rifle, etc) which can't be patched as easily as a bolt hole.

Nobody owns the mother earth- we just pretend that it's ours to use and abuse..


FLAG
By Shane Neal
From Colorado Springs, CO.
Jun 1, 2009
Thunder

Crawdad Canyon is a very cool and fun place. These glued holds are not the norm, at least from what I saw, just one isolated eye-sore. The canyon is private, so the owner can allow it...? For a road trip though, to SW Utah, this is a must stop. Solid basalt sport climbing- There are no crowds, shade, the climbs are labeled at the base w/ plaques and the trails awesome. A pool right by too, to cool off(part of the fee). A true climbing "sportspark" if you like that kind of thing. Check it out if in the St. George area.

Edit: Although not typical of climbing crag's as we know it, still a good spot. To each their own- Im not here to tell a land owner how to run their "for profit climbing park". My post isnt my opinion on the glued holds(which I disagree w/btw), as thats not my battle at this destination- just my .02 on a place I have been and enjoyed. Also, St. George has MANY a good crag to check out if in that area. Climb hard. Climb safe.


FLAG
By Brad Brandewie
Jun 1, 2009
Maya's first trip to RMNP.

Shane Neal wrote:
For a road trip though, to SW Utah, this is a must stop.


Shane,
It's interesting that you wrote this as I was just about to write that it's an easy miss if you're sport climbing in the St. George area. I haven't climbed at Crawdad, but it's fairly short sport climbing which can be had for free at other places in St. G.

I have climbed at the Black Rocks, Chuck-a-walla, and Snow Canyon areas and thought that the climbing was enjoyable at all of them. I didn't see a need to pay for climbing. Again though, I haven't climbed at Crawdad so perhaps I'm missing something special. The pool sounds nice.

my .02,
Brad


FLAG
By dirtbag
From Bellingham, WA
Jun 1, 2009
i really enjoyed this drive to the tetons... can't wait to make it back to WY

Apparently someone needs to have a "sit down" about climbing ethics... hope this idiot gumby doesn't get someone killed when they use their new bolt kit to develop a new sport route or retrobolt a trad anchor. Concerning. WTF.


FLAG
By CJC
Jun 1, 2009

pathetic. what self-respecting climber would even consider climbing that piece of crap?

i don't care if its 'allowed' or 'legal' or whatever its still FAIL.


FLAG
By Avery N
From Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2009
Canadian Rockies Ice 2008.

I guess the question this poses to me is: should a site like Mountain Project support such an area (which goes against current-day rock-treatment ethics) by including it on the site?

I'm not saying yes or no, and I do recognize it is on private land.

However, I'm saying that by including climbs or areas that include things like bolting holds on natural climbs -- it may be suggesting 'we' (the climbing community) approve. And that, could be why things like this have started to appear in places like Provo Canyon.

Just raising the question.


FLAG
By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Jun 1, 2009
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord

my question is, why hasn't anyone snatched that bail biner? booty!

or actually, why would it be there in the first place. thats what i find hilarious.


FLAG
By Tyson Anderson
From Las Vegas, NV
Jun 1, 2009
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat

I'm going to agree with Shane that even though the climbing experience is not the norm...it's still a lot of fun. I went up with a big group of people from Vegas over the weekend and had a blast. Even though there were a lot of climbers in the park (mostly our group) there were plenty of routes to go around. The canyon is situated so that one side is in the shade in the morning and the other side is shaded in the afternoon. It's a cool environment and a good place to get a lot of climbs done in a short period of time. I had some issues with some of the routes being bolted that should have been trad, but as a landowner I wouldn't want to have to worry about liability either. I didn't like the route labels glued to base of many climbs...but it seems like a lot of the newer routes don't have these. A decent guide book with drawn rock features so you could identify routes would sold this. The landowner could sell the book and make more money this way.

The one thing that absolutely dropped my jaw was this glued holds bit. I only saw it on one route and I got to see almost all of the canyon. Private or not it was a climber who did this, not the landowner. Until somebody can prove me wrong I'm blaming the Southern Utah Climbers Coalition who "oversees the routesetting of this area." I hope I speak for much of the climbing community when I say I would like to see the SUCC oversee the removal of these holds. It's an eyesore and it sends the wrong message to the many non-climbers that visit the park and even beginning climbers. If you're not good enough to do the route, move on and get better somewhere else. If you can't handle that, stay in the gym.


FLAG
By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Jun 1, 2009
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord

so why didnt you just remove the holds? and the hangers for that matter?


FLAG
By Avery N
From Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2009
Canadian Rockies Ice 2008.

WiledHorse wrote:
my question is, why hasn't anyone snatched that bail biner? booty! or actually, why would it be there in the first place. thats what i find hilarious.


Haha -- won't be there long, now that you've pointed it out! I can see a mad-dash of climbers heading there now for the bail biner...


FLAG
By Tyson Anderson
From Las Vegas, NV
Jun 1, 2009
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat

WiledHorse wrote:
so why didnt you just remove the holds? and the hangers for that matter?


They aren't just bolted, they are epoxied on. A hammer and chisel aren't part of my standard sport rack.


FLAG
By CJC
Jun 1, 2009

Tyson Anderson wrote:
Southern Utah Climbers Coalition: SUCC


i lol'd


FLAG
By talkinrocks
From Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2009
Washburns Thumb.  Denali

So lame. I dont care if its private or not, its lame. I agree that there should be some consideration about Mountain Project hosting space for a place with glued holds and glued plaques with route names on the cliff. Isnt that what guidebooks are for? Accessability to the masses and beginners I understand, but seems kind of a waste of space on Mtn Proj. if everything is already spelle dout for you at the cliffs, do you really need beta for a place like Crawdad Canyon? Education is a great idea, but private landowners often dont give a shit about the climbing community or our 'ethics' and my guess is that nothing would be done to remedy these situations, unless it is on public lands like like the Provo incident. Any members of the Southern Utah Climbers Coalition (SUCC) out there want to voice an opinion?


FLAG
By Will Butler
From Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2009
ice park

I've been projecting this thing for years now and I must say that it is much harder than it appears. Despite the obvious rest at the bucket to the left of the crack, the lip one encounters once transitioning to real rock just keeps spitting me off. Love it or hate it but you have to admire the expert setting skills of the first ascentionist. I would however recommending bringing a larger sized alan wrench in the event any of the holds are still spinning or you need alter there angle to send. Enjoy


FLAG
By JASON A.
Jun 1, 2009
Just being badass

i'd climb it and have a great time on it


FLAG
By Mike Dudley
From Vegas
Jun 1, 2009
Cracker Jack on lead.

Paying to sport climb? Why would someone set up a pay to climb park? Isnt the ice park in Uray supported on sponsers and donations? This just all seems so strange, I go climbing to get out into the out doors not to pay a park fee and climb plastic.

Just my .02


FLAG
By Shane Neal
From Colorado Springs, CO.
Jun 1, 2009
Thunder

Mike Dudley wrote:
Paying to sport climb? Why would someone set up a pay to climb park? Isnt the ice park in Uray supported on sponsers and donations? This just all seems so strange, I go climbing to get out into the out doors not to pay a park fee and climb plastic. Just my .02


Understandable- but-

It is outdoors. It is very serene(not a lot of users) and it is good basalt sport climbing. A little odd from the norm, but I think an interesting endeavor by the land owner. The novelty alone makes it worth a trip and the fee includes loungein' at the pool(which is seperate from the park).

We went in october a few years back. It was closed for the season(pool). But, we talked to the owner, letting him know we came from CO. to check it out(SW UT road trip. CC is covered in Climbing UT, Falcon press)-and he let us climb and camp for free for two days. Cool guy, cool place.

I hope the WTF part of the moron who glued holds on a rock doesnt give this spot a bad name/image that it doesnt deserve. Try it before you discard it. You'll never see another place like it and will enjoy the climbing. :)


FLAG
By Shawn Mitchell
From Broomfield
Jun 1, 2009
Splitter Jams on the Israel/Palestine Security Wall.

johnL wrote:
They'd probably be able to shed the most light on this blaspheme.

One of these objects does not belong in the set:

A. Light

B. Blasphemy

C.


FLAG
By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2009
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

I don't tell my neighbors how to trim their bushes...
I don't tell land owners how to manage their crags.
And I sure don't want to go pay a use fee to go vandalize what is now thier property.
The best possible action is just to let the land owner know your thoughts if you ARE a paying customer or a potential one. If not, let it be. It's not public land and its not about you.
MP.com is a database. I am not sure that the site is 'endorsing' or supporting anything here- just containing info (really, pretty scathing) about the area.


FLAG
By Shawn Mitchell
From Broomfield
Jun 1, 2009
Splitter Jams on the Israel/Palestine Security Wall.

Well, it's a good thing I saw The Untouchables before I saw that picture. Please tell me it's not from one of the Bond movies.


FLAG
By Shawn Mitchell
From Broomfield
Jun 1, 2009
Splitter Jams on the Israel/Palestine Security Wall.

Great actor. Stupid movie. Fits the thread:

WTF

John, you do any very early weekday climbing?


FLAG
By Shawn Mitchell
From Broomfield
Jun 1, 2009
Splitter Jams on the Israel/Palestine Security Wall.

Bummer. I'm bad tomorrow, but I'll take this cyber match-making private. Incoming.


FLAG
By SexPanther aka Kiedis
Jul 8, 2009
Thumbtastic

I've climbed at Crawdad (everyone around Santo Hor-Hay calls it Veyo, BTW) a couple of times, never swam at the pool. The route is called Uncertainty Principle, 11a FA:Todd Goss-see also Hate Crimes 12b FA: Todd Goss and others in the area. If anyone actually gives a crap about One More Manufactured Route In The Southwest, here's my version of the truth.

1. Black Rocks has a shorter approach time than Crawdad when you factor in dodging the pool and the tourons and waiting in line to pay, the routes are generally more fun, and it's quieter. So don't stress-if you're in Mormonland and specifically want to climb basalt, there are copious alternatives-see the SW Utah guide---*by Todd Goss*. On the other hand, there's a pool at Veyo, which for some combines with the hotdog/icecream availability onsite to create some sort of suburban bliss state. More power to ya if that's you.

2. There are dozens of amazing cliffs around the St.George area with an dizzying diversity of rock types. You can crush stonker limestone, on lead, your first day climbing, and maybe there's something to be said for that. This is simply not the area to seek out ball-clenching hardman routes, unless you get the fear on chossy sandstone while standing by a bolt with another by your shirt pocket-Zen Wall, Green Valley Gap, and some other local crags make Red Rock stone seem like Rumbling Bald granite. Bottom line is the chipping is as eye-popping as some of the cliffs at times, but if you're not willing to give the routes a try, you'll miss out on some amazing Goss+crew bonehead blunders, but also some 5 star routes. Quite a few of them, actually.

3. Chipping/manufacturing around St. George (and the rest of the Desert Southwest as I know it, as well) is like grains of sand on a beach in its endless totality. I got on a Goss "2-pitcher" that had a chipped ledge on it at the first set of anchors. No joke. The bizarreness of the deal is that those guys have so much good limestone to climb it makes my head spin; but I suppose the decision to manufacture a route on some short pile back where I'm from looked chickenshit because the "FAer" didn't just sack up and drive to the New like the rest of us, so it shouldn't be all that surprising that a guy running a guide service is drilling and bolting "well-cleaned moderates" at every cliff in the area. In particular, Prophesy Wall struck me as a Seneca Rocks type experience, minus the challenge. Bolts next to cracks and the lot. It's a beautiful spot, cool sketchy sandstone, big predatory birds-just ignore the man behind the screen. If you think someone's a heinous p-u-s-s-why? for gluing and chipping, ask for Todd Goss at Paragon Climbing Instruction (435-673-1709, from his Southwest Utah Guide ad) and tell him so. I never bothered, b/c though he seems toolish and his ethics Francaise, you have to give it to the guy-he's put up more routes than some 5.13 climbers have brain cells, and without his guidebook, finding the multitudes of good cliffs around this area would require moving there or buying copious amounts of [actual, not 3%]beer for those who coexist with the Mor(m)ons. Nobody has to pass an IQ test to buy a drill, knowhutahmean?

I think Saint George has far better sport climbing then Red Rocks, overall, and the best is yet to come. The small community of climbers up there that are developing most of the routes are very pro chipping, pro permadraws, pro "leave the second rope at home, there's an anchor every 80 feet" but you have to go there and see for yourself and make up your own mind. Again, I argue that for every retard outdoor gym route up there, there are 2 jaw-dropping classics, 3 forgettable warmups, and at least one miserably contrived hard piece of shite. Not bad odds, really.


FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>