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Jun 1, 2009
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat
mountainproject.com/v/utah/sai...

WTF
WTF
Tyson Anderson
From SLC, UT
Joined May 14, 2007
130 points
Jun 1, 2009
Gripped...
Did they send it!?
JK... It's not funny at all.
Aimee Bates
Joined Sep 13, 2008
196 points
Jun 1, 2009
Canadian Rockies Ice 2008.
This whole "transition from gym to outside" thing is becoming a real issue!

Seriously, though -- that's horrible.
Avery N
From Boulder, CO
Joined Apr 10, 2006
694 points
Jun 1, 2009
Eli on the FA of Grizzly (M9) at the Den.
This was going on at Smith Rocks in the Cocaine Gulley and other areas of the park back in the 80's...

Suppose it's not as bad as drilled handholds (rifle, etc) which can't be patched as easily as a bolt hole.

Nobody owns the mother earth- we just pretend that it's ours to use and abuse..
Eli Helmuth
From Estes Park, CO
Joined Aug 12, 2001
1,043 points
Jun 1, 2009
Thunder
Crawdad Canyon is a very cool and fun place. These glued holds are not the norm, at least from what I saw, just one isolated eye-sore. The canyon is private, so the owner can allow it...? For a road trip though, to SW Utah, this is a must stop. Solid basalt sport climbing- There are no crowds, shade, the climbs are labeled at the base w/ plaques and the trails awesome. A pool right by too, to cool off(part of the fee). A true climbing "sportspark" if you like that kind of thing. Check it out if in the St. George area.

Edit: Although not typical of climbing crag's as we know it, still a good spot. To each their own- Im not here to tell a land owner how to run their "for profit climbing park". My post isnt my opinion on the glued holds(which I disagree w/btw), as thats not my battle at this destination- just my .02 on a place I have been and enjoyed. Also, St. George has MANY a good crag to check out if in that area. Climb hard. Climb safe.
Shane Neal
From Colorado Springs, CO.
Joined Mar 6, 2002
273 points
Jun 1, 2009
Maya's first trip to RMNP.
Shane Neal wrote:
For a road trip though, to SW Utah, this is a must stop.


Shane,
It's interesting that you wrote this as I was just about to write that it's an easy miss if you're sport climbing in the St. George area. I haven't climbed at Crawdad, but it's fairly short sport climbing which can be had for free at other places in St. G.

I have climbed at the Black Rocks, Chuck-a-walla, and Snow Canyon areas and thought that the climbing was enjoyable at all of them. I didn't see a need to pay for climbing. Again though, I haven't climbed at Crawdad so perhaps I'm missing something special. The pool sounds nice.

my .02,
Brad
Brad Brandewie
Joined Apr 29, 2001
3,049 points
Jun 1, 2009
i really enjoyed this drive to the tetons... can't...
Apparently someone needs to have a "sit down" about climbing ethics... hope this idiot gumby doesn't get someone killed when they use their new bolt kit to develop a new sport route or retrobolt a trad anchor. Concerning. WTF. dirtbag
From Bellingham, WA
Joined Feb 4, 2007
142 points
Jun 1, 2009
Mashers Tower
pathetic. what self-respecting climber would even consider climbing that piece of crap?

i don't care if its 'allowed' or 'legal' or whatever its still FAIL.
Cornelius Jefferson
Joined Apr 5, 2006
163 points
Jun 1, 2009
Canadian Rockies Ice 2008.
I guess the question this poses to me is: should a site like Mountain Project support such an area (which goes against current-day rock-treatment ethics) by including it on the site?

I'm not saying yes or no, and I do recognize it is on private land.

However, I'm saying that by including climbs or areas that include things like bolting holds on natural climbs -- it may be suggesting 'we' (the climbing community) approve. And that, could be why things like this have started to appear in places like Provo Canyon.

Just raising the question.
Avery N
From Boulder, CO
Joined Apr 10, 2006
694 points
Jun 1, 2009
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of ...
my question is, why hasn't anyone snatched that bail biner? booty!

or actually, why would it be there in the first place. thats what i find hilarious.
Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Joined Dec 12, 2002
3,752 points
Jun 1, 2009
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat
I'm going to agree with Shane that even though the climbing experience is not the norm...it's still a lot of fun. I went up with a big group of people from Vegas over the weekend and had a blast. Even though there were a lot of climbers in the park (mostly our group) there were plenty of routes to go around. The canyon is situated so that one side is in the shade in the morning and the other side is shaded in the afternoon. It's a cool environment and a good place to get a lot of climbs done in a short period of time. I had some issues with some of the routes being bolted that should have been trad, but as a landowner I wouldn't want to have to worry about liability either. I didn't like the route labels glued to base of many climbs...but it seems like a lot of the newer routes don't have these. A decent guide book with drawn rock features so you could identify routes would sold this. The landowner could sell the book and make more money this way.

The one thing that absolutely dropped my jaw was this glued holds bit. I only saw it on one route and I got to see almost all of the canyon. Private or not it was a climber who did this, not the landowner. Until somebody can prove me wrong I'm blaming the Southern Utah Climbers Coalition who "oversees the routesetting of this area." I hope I speak for much of the climbing community when I say I would like to see the SUCC oversee the removal of these holds. It's an eyesore and it sends the wrong message to the many non-climbers that visit the park and even beginning climbers. If you're not good enough to do the route, move on and get better somewhere else. If you can't handle that, stay in the gym.
Tyson Anderson
From SLC, UT
Joined May 14, 2007
130 points
Jun 1, 2009
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of ...
so why didnt you just remove the holds? and the hangers for that matter? Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Joined Dec 12, 2002
3,752 points
Jun 1, 2009
Canadian Rockies Ice 2008.
WiledHorse wrote:
my question is, why hasn't anyone snatched that bail biner? booty! or actually, why would it be there in the first place. thats what i find hilarious.


Haha -- won't be there long, now that you've pointed it out! I can see a mad-dash of climbers heading there now for the bail biner...
Avery N
From Boulder, CO
Joined Apr 10, 2006
694 points
Jun 1, 2009
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat
WiledHorse wrote:
so why didnt you just remove the holds? and the hangers for that matter?


They aren't just bolted, they are epoxied on. A hammer and chisel aren't part of my standard sport rack.
Tyson Anderson
From SLC, UT
Joined May 14, 2007
130 points
Jun 1, 2009
Mashers Tower
Tyson Anderson wrote:
Southern Utah Climbers Coalition: SUCC


i lol'd
Cornelius Jefferson
Joined Apr 5, 2006
163 points
Jun 1, 2009
Washburns Thumb.  Denali
So lame. I dont care if its private or not, its lame. I agree that there should be some consideration about Mountain Project hosting space for a place with glued holds and glued plaques with route names on the cliff. Isnt that what guidebooks are for? Accessability to the masses and beginners I understand, but seems kind of a waste of space on Mtn Proj. if everything is already spelle dout for you at the cliffs, do you really need beta for a place like Crawdad Canyon? Education is a great idea, but private landowners often dont give a shit about the climbing community or our 'ethics' and my guess is that nothing would be done to remedy these situations, unless it is on public lands like like the Provo incident. Any members of the Southern Utah Climbers Coalition (SUCC) out there want to voice an opinion? talkinrocks
From Boulder, CO
Joined Aug 11, 2008
96 points
Jun 1, 2009
ice park
I've been projecting this thing for years now and I must say that it is much harder than it appears. Despite the obvious rest at the bucket to the left of the crack, the lip one encounters once transitioning to real rock just keeps spitting me off. Love it or hate it but you have to admire the expert setting skills of the first ascentionist. I would however recommending bringing a larger sized alan wrench in the event any of the holds are still spinning or you need alter there angle to send. Enjoy Will Butler
From Boulder, CO
Joined Sep 6, 2005
53 points
Jun 1, 2009
Just being badass
i'd climb it and have a great time on it JASON A.
Joined Mar 27, 2009
56 points
Jun 1, 2009
Cracker Jack on lead.
Paying to sport climb? Why would someone set up a pay to climb park? Isnt the ice park in Uray supported on sponsers and donations? This just all seems so strange, I go climbing to get out into the out doors not to pay a park fee and climb plastic.

Just my .02
Mike Dudley
From Vegas
Joined Nov 28, 2008
213 points
Jun 1, 2009
Thunder
Mike Dudley wrote:
Paying to sport climb? Why would someone set up a pay to climb park? Isnt the ice park in Uray supported on sponsers and donations? This just all seems so strange, I go climbing to get out into the out doors not to pay a park fee and climb plastic. Just my .02


Understandable- but-

It is outdoors. It is very serene(not a lot of users) and it is good basalt sport climbing. A little odd from the norm, but I think an interesting endeavor by the land owner. The novelty alone makes it worth a trip and the fee includes loungein' at the pool(which is seperate from the park).

We went in october a few years back. It was closed for the season(pool). But, we talked to the owner, letting him know we came from CO. to check it out(SW UT road trip. CC is covered in Climbing UT, Falcon press)-and he let us climb and camp for free for two days. Cool guy, cool place.

I hope the WTF part of the moron who glued holds on a rock doesnt give this spot a bad name/image that it doesnt deserve. Try it before you discard it. You'll never see another place like it and will enjoy the climbing. :)
Shane Neal
From Colorado Springs, CO.
Joined Mar 6, 2002
273 points
Jun 1, 2009
Splitter Jams on the Israel/Palestine Security Wal...
johnL wrote:
They'd probably be able to shed the most light on this blaspheme.

One of these objects does not belong in the set:

A. Light

B. Blasphemy

C.
Shawn Mitchell
From Broomfield
Joined Mar 4, 2008
313 points
Jun 1, 2009
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "...
I don't tell my neighbors how to trim their bushes...
I don't tell land owners how to manage their crags.
And I sure don't want to go pay a use fee to go vandalize what is now thier property.
The best possible action is just to let the land owner know your thoughts if you ARE a paying customer or a potential one. If not, let it be. It's not public land and its not about you.
MP.com is a database. I am not sure that the site is 'endorsing' or supporting anything here- just containing info (really, pretty scathing) about the area.
Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 1, 2001
23,510 points
Jun 1, 2009
Splitter Jams on the Israel/Palestine Security Wal...
Well, it's a good thing I saw The Untouchables before I saw that picture. Please tell me it's not from one of the Bond movies. Shawn Mitchell
From Broomfield
Joined Mar 4, 2008
313 points
Jun 1, 2009
Splitter Jams on the Israel/Palestine Security Wal...
Great actor. Stupid movie. Fits the thread:

WTF

John, you do any very early weekday climbing?
Shawn Mitchell
From Broomfield
Joined Mar 4, 2008
313 points
Jun 1, 2009
Splitter Jams on the Israel/Palestine Security Wal...
Bummer. I'm bad tomorrow, but I'll take this cyber match-making private. Incoming. Shawn Mitchell
From Broomfield
Joined Mar 4, 2008
313 points
Jul 8, 2009
Bucky
Interesting take Killis, pretty even handed, and I sure as shit laughed at your post.
I have a couple of questions.

One, are all of this guy Goss' routes chipped, or does he put up nice natural lines as well (not that this should excuse chipping).

Two, is it culturally acceptable around Utah to chip at will....or is it just ok at choss piles?
I mean, out where I live in California, the accepted ethic can very by the mile. i.e. I know sport climbing areas near the Valley that are manufactured and its accepted, but if you did that to anything in the Ditch or up in the Meadows you would get killed by the same folks who did the chipping at the glued up choss ampitheater that they call home in the winter season. Seems like this might be the same at Red Rocks too. i.e. you can chip in the pullouts, but the high country is more or less off limits.

Either way, I think chipping and gluing is douchtastic, and its even worse that this guy Goss is a guide. I hope he doesn't pass that ethic on to people he guides, especially if they wouldn't be smart enough to know the difference between chipping choss and chipping in Toulumne. Further, I am not sure that just because he published a guidebook, that it should excuse him from vandalizing rock, chossy or not.
J. Albers
From Colorado
Joined Jul 11, 2008
2,223 points


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