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Worlds largest rope swing?
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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Mar 26, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life

Ryan A. Ray wrote:
call them and ask..you will see.



Thanks. Super helpful.

I really would like answers to the other questions I asked; I'm curious to understand your stance.


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By Ryan A. Ray
From Keller, TX
Mar 26, 2012
Hanging out on the Titan in the Fisher Towers, Utah.

nope, there are no double standards listed here. Yes i did climb the titan..and have climbed many many other climbs around north america with as little impact as i could...But NO i did not post a video to youtube for millions to watch and draw attention to it.

I am not talking about damage done to the arch itself. Yes i know that all of these activities create some sort of impact on the rock...land..etc. Thats not my concern. Reread my posts.

Austin Baird wrote:
Could you elaborate on this please? This is the attitude that confuses me the most. Most of the climbers on this site will gladly fork out money to watch Banff or Radical Reels films. These are films with large budgets that are marketed towards a national audience and that depict activities in which bolts are drilled, rocks are pulled off, and vegetation is trampled. In order for you to take the stance that you're taking, I only see a few possible arguments that you can make. They are: 1.) You oppose ANY sort of media or exposure that glorifies climbing, skiing, base jumping, etc. because it opens authorities' eyes to the possible destruction of resources as well as inspires other, unskilled people to try the activities and get hurt. 2.) You believe that my rope swing was somehow more destructive and more damaging than ANY other activities that you WOULD allow to be depicted in films, pictures, etc. Therefore, the extra risk of damage to resources outweighs my desire to make a Youtube video and it shouldn't be made. 3.) ...... The way I see it, the damage done to Corona is no more than the damage that you did to the Titan when YOU climbed it. So if our activity is no more damaging than climbing, why does the double standard exist? Why are climbing films glorified while mine is vilified? I guarantee you that more people have taken up climbing because of a film they watched than have jumped off Corona because of a 2:55 long Youtube video. I don't mind that you disagree with my decision; what I DO mind is the logical inconsistency and double standards inherent in your opprobrium. Could you please explain this to me?


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By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Mar 26, 2012
Colonel Mustard

Austin Baird wrote:
I'll also concede this point. It's damned cheesy - but it wasn't made for climbers. If we had made the video for climbers it would have been 15 minutes of us arguing about the best way to rig the anchor, followed by 4 hours of an ethical debate on whether or not we should do it, 3 hours of argument about whether the bolts were necessary or if the swing would have gone on trad gear, 2 hours of people telling us about swings they did that were WAY COOLER, and then someone calling us a bunch of pansies because Dan Osman was way more badass, and then we would have decided not to do it at all because we couldn't remember how long we were supposed to let sandstone dry out after a rain. The video would have sucked.


The video is well done technically, don't get me wrong, it's just not to my taste at all. There's plenty of climbing media I like that doesn't ever stoop to the level of judgmental hyperbole you facetiously imply. It's your baby though, so I can understand why you take my aesthetic judgment personally.


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By Ian Stewart
Mar 26, 2012

Ryan A. Ray wrote:
im not talking about how long that video sticks around. Im talking about how many negative calls the BLM and UTAH state lands are receiving because of this video NOW...not next month. And then how many calls they will be receiving when the next big video or publicity stunt goes viral...and so on and so on. Eventually it will cause a change in policy. You don't think they are not already frustrated and fed up with the thousands of calls they are already getting?


Do you work for either of those organizations you claim is getting hammered with negative calls because of this video? I wouldn't doubt that some people are unhappy, but these 'facts' seem to be pulled out of thin air.

Your general comments about "ruining it for everyone else" are extremely selfish. Sure, you already knew that you could do this, but what about the other close to 10 million people that have now seen this video? I was never interested in climbing until I saw it in a video, and now I'd say I'm a pretty active climber that is responsible and doesn't abuse or damage the environment any more than I have to. Do you think that climbing video I watched should have been safely guarded for only the "in crowd" to see?

People need to stop being such crybabies. The internet and youtube is here and it's not going anywhere. If I can watch two women eat shit out of a cup, I would fully expect to be able to watch some people having the time of their life on a giant swing. You can poo-poo it all you want, but the only real response is: "tough".


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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Mar 26, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life

Old Custer wrote:
The video is well done technically, don't get me wrong, it's just not to my taste at all. There's plenty of climbing media I like that doesn't ever stoop to the level of judgmental hyperbole you facetiously imply. It's your baby though, so I can understand why you take my aesthetic judgment personally.



You misunderstand me good sir. I'm not emotionally invested in the video at all. I rigged the swing and made sure people didn't die. I didn't have a hand in making or editing the movie at all and I agree with you that it's damned cheesy. I'm not taking your judgment personally; just trying to inject some humor into my agreement with you. (I'm not really qualified to judge art anyway, I can barely download pictures off my camera)


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By Ryan A. Ray
From Keller, TX
Mar 26, 2012
Hanging out on the Titan in the Fisher Towers, Utah.

Ian Stewart wrote:
Do you work for either of those organizations you claim is getting hammered with negative calls because of this video?


nope..but i do my research


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By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Mar 26, 2012
Colonel Mustard

Austin Baird wrote:
You misunderstand me good sir. I'm not emotionally invested in the video at all. I rigged the swing and made sure people didn't die. I didn't have a hand in making or editing the movie at all and I agree with you that it's damned cheesy. I'm not taking your judgment personally; just trying to inject some humor into my agreement with you. (I'm not really qualified to judge art anyway, I can barely download pictures off my camera)


Fair enough ;). I just didn't agree I was being "a hater" for not liking something based on my own tastes (not that you are one of those people). You personally have been very transparent about your rigging and ethical considerations, and that is something to be applauded.


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By Ryan A. Ray
From Keller, TX
Mar 26, 2012
Hanging out on the Titan in the Fisher Towers, Utah.

hey austin, check your email.. i sent you a PM


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By the Oracle
From Delphi
Mar 26, 2012
mawiage

Ryan A. Ray wrote:
call them and ask..you will see.



If you're asserting a position the onus is on you to support it, not anyone else bub.


Ryan A. Ray wrote:
nope..but i do my research



Again, insubstantial references to your supposed evidence.


Imma jus' gonna say.... y'aint got shit to back up your claims of "thousands of calls a day" else youd be showin' us sum factual proof of your claims.


Here's some remedial help -
www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html




Congrats Austin!


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By Jason N.
From Grand Junction
Mar 26, 2012
Indy pass

I'm kind of on the fence about the ethics of the rope swing and all, but I was out there yesterday watching a party rigging one up (or at least trying to). Was this you guys? From the video it doesn't look like it. A few observations from yesterday:

What I witnessed didn't give me the biggest warm fuzzy about the swing being rigged. The people doing this struck me as the "rappelling specialist" types. Apparently, the party had been out there since 6am, but when I got there at 11am they were still working, and they finally tested the swing with a bag rocks at about 1pm right before I left. Does rigging up something like this really take that long or were they just in over their heads? I realize this is incredibly judgmental (perhaps off base) and ultimately doesn't matter, but I personally trust the technical skills of people who go beyond just rappelling much more. I also saw a drill being used, presumably to add bolts, but from reading this thread it sounds like all the required boltage should be present at this point?

For what its worth, I do think this video has already made an effect. There was much buzz among the spectators about the viral video, and I know of at least one other party that was hoping to set up a swing as well, but was unable since the party described above was already on it.

Anyways, I'm not looking to create too much fuss, just curious about a couple things and wanted to throw some observations (from an inexperienced gumby) out there about what I witnessed yesterday.


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Mar 26, 2012
Stoked...

Looks like a really fun time... looks like they have all their safety bases covered... don't see the issue.


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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Mar 26, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life

Jason N. wrote:
I'm kind of on the fence about the ethics of the rope swing and all, but I was out there yesterday watching a party rigging one up (or at least trying to). Was this you guys? From the video it doesn't look like it. A few observations from yesterday: What I witnessed didn't give me the biggest warm fuzzy about the swing being rigged. The people doing this struck me as the "rappelling specialist" types. Apparently, the party had been out there since 6am, but when I got there at 11am they were still working, and they finally tested the swing with a bag rocks at about 1pm right before I left. Does rigging up something like this really take that long or were they just in over their heads? I realize this is incredibly judgmental (perhaps off base) and ultimately doesn't matter, but I personally trust the technical skills of people who go beyond just rappelling much more. I also saw a drill being used, presumably to add bolts, but from reading this thread it sounds like all the required boltage should be present at this point? For what its worth, I do think this video has already made an effect. There was much buzz among the spectators about the viral video, and I know of at least one other party that was hoping to set up a swing as well, but was unable since the party described above was already on it.


Setup took us an hour and a half the first time and 45 mins the second. If it's taking them that long, they shouldn't really be out there. I've got no idea what the drill would be for. There are plenty of bolts up there already. At least tell me they didn't have static ropes - you wouldn't believe the number of questions I got about that.


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By PosiDave
Mar 26, 2012

based on information provided. Maybe ascent and descent users of the land could try to talk with those in charge to protect these activities? regardless of agreeing or not. any prohibiting by a body of ignorant people should not be based on a community.


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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Mar 26, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life

PosiDave wrote:
based on information provided. Maybe ascent and descent users of the land could try to talk with those in charge to protect these activities? regardless of agreeing or not. any prohibiting by a body of ignorant people should not be based on a community.



This brings up another question I have. I'm a libertarian who believes that the government ought to build roads, protect us from invasion, and stay out of pretty much everything else. The idea of the government (or anyone else) trying to protect me from hurting myself is anathema to my philosophy. If people want to do stupid things then we shouldn't be asking ourselves if they should be "allowed" to do them. This goes for everything from rope swinging to cliff jumping to driving without a seat belt. At the end of the day, you're the only one responsible for your safety.

So with that philosophical backdrop, do you people who disagree with the video do so strictly because you're worried about access or arch damage, or because you feel like the government (or any other group) has the responsibility to protect people from themselves? I've always imagined climbers to be a pretty libertarian group and I'm curious to know if I'm right.


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By thomas ellis
From abq
Mar 26, 2012
Mint jullop

Why should they even offer you a road? Just ram through trees without your seat belt. And the military? If it is a free for all just grab your weapons and getter done.


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By PosiDave
Mar 26, 2012

MERICA!!! Kill'em all let god sort them out....

Instead of enforcing laws. there should just be a test that you have to take before you can breed or raise a child. If you fall you loose your reproductive rights. this would probably help weed out half the idiots in the world. darwinism turned government funded?.... (not being serious but with half the stuff they have to do to warn us may be getting there.)


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By Ryan A. Ray
From Keller, TX
Mar 26, 2012
Hanging out on the Titan in the Fisher Towers, Utah.

Austin, i agree to an extent. I dont like the government telling me what i can and cant do as well. (within reason of course)

The problem lies when someone starts doing these things on someone else's property. Yes, public land is technically the peoples land...but the government can change that with just a few presses of the pen.

Unfortunately we live in a time when there are people who are looking for the opportunity to file lawsuits...and in a time of sympathetic jury's. I think that many land governing authorities begin to pass rules and regulations to protect themselves from this. They are not necessarily trying to protect us from ourselves...but trying to protect themselves from us.

My objection has nothing at all to do with the video. I actually enjoyed the video. My concern is purely access issues. Future Arch damage would be a bit of concern for me to (you guys appear to have not done any more damage than previous jumpers). Sounds like someone may have already added a few bolts up there..if that is in fact what they were doing yesterday.

All it takes is for someone to get hurt or killed...and the family to decide to sue the BLM, Utah State lands, The National Park Service, or whatever land entity they may have been on for it. (and unfortunately there are many out there who think that someone should pay for the injury or death of their loved ones mistake). So to protect themselves from liability....Laws get passed. Rules get made, and we as the end user lose access. Not just me (as someone seemed to think i was selfish for) ..but you too.

Austin, thanks for taking the time to respond to me via email. You seem like a good guy and our concerns seem similar.



Austin Baird wrote:
This brings up another question I have. I'm a libertarian who believes that the government ought to build roads, protect us from invasion, and stay out of pretty much everything else. The idea of the government (or anyone else) trying to protect me from hurting myself is anathema to my philosophy. If people want to do stupid things then we shouldn't be asking ourselves if they should be "allowed" to do them. This goes for everything from rope swinging to cliff jumping to driving without a seat belt. At the end of the day, you're the only one responsible for your safety. So with that philosophical backdrop, do you people who disagree with the video do so strictly because you're worried about access or arch damage, or because you feel like the government (or any other group) has the responsibility to protect people from themselves? I've always imagined climbers to be a pretty libertarian group and I'm curious to know if I'm right.


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By Ryan A. Ray
From Keller, TX
Mar 26, 2012
Hanging out on the Titan in the Fisher Towers, Utah.

PosiDave wrote:
MERICA!!! Kill'em all let god sort them out.... Instead of enforcing laws. there should just be a test that you have to take before you can breed or raise a child. If you fall you loose your reproductive rights. this would probably help weed out half the idiots in the world. darwinism turned government funded?.... (not being serious but with half the stuff they have to do to warn us may be getting there.)



LOL.. sadly its too true.


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By PosiDave
Mar 26, 2012

So you should quit climbing and you should enver post pictures of it. The last thing anyone else wants is you to climb on the rock they are local to......

No that the focus is You and climbing. You probably don't feel the same. If you do then obviously you only climb on a woody in your house. Because you know you should not damage rock.

This rope swing is probably the least environmental impact you should worry about. How about roads, electric plants, damming river, building houses, etc, etc..... This rope swing is a smaller particle of dust than what we are part of when it comes to destroying things.


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By Zappatista
Mar 26, 2012
Book me, officer.

Kill the messenger! Burn the guidebooks! The internet must die!

So serious around here. Climb in absolute secrecy working out for anyone?

Just remember that 2 Girls 1 Cup had 40 BILLION hits, you don't see a line of people repeating that cunning stunt.

Everybody relax, have some dip.


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By Keyan P
From Burlington, VT
Apr 11, 2012
View from top of Standard Route on Whitehorse, NH

Sorry to bring this one back up, but just have a question. How damaging is this to the rap anchors? Could this activity have caused the anchors to be suspect for those just rapping off the arch? Not advocating the rope swing whatsoever, but perhaps if this is going to continue there should be separate rap anchors?


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By fat cow
From Salinas, CA
Apr 11, 2012
perfect seam

Keyan P wrote:
Sorry to bring this one back up, but just have a question. How damaging is this to the rap anchors? Could this activity have caused the anchors to be suspect for those just rapping off the arch? Not advocating the rope swing whatsoever, but perhaps if this is going to continue there should be separate rap anchors?


not damaging, rope stretchy!


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By Josh.Wood
From New York City
Apr 12, 2012

I may be confusing this with another arch, but Corona Arch isn't exactly a deserted place in the wilderness. It's less than a mile from the parking lot up a tourist trail, and the lookout onto the arch, especially this time of year, is filled with obese tourists taking pictures. If you want to appreciate the solitude of nature, this isn't the place to be. I'm assuming that most of the tourists enjoyed watching you swing. Also, the arch has rappel anchors on it. If you're supposed to leave the arch alone, what are they doing?
As for the danger part, this is the climbing world. Climbers do dangerous things all the time, and they are aware of the risks. If you want to risk your life doing this, go ahead. Just convince your family not the sue the government on your behalf if you die.


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By Pete Spri
Apr 12, 2012

This'll be awesome when it forces the BLM to regulate what can be done on public land.

Dan Potter has left Arches in shambles from his climbing of Delicate Arch, and you'd better believe that the BLM is keeping an eye on this type of stuff.


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By S Denny
From Carbondale, CO
Apr 12, 2012

Spri wrote:
Dan Potter has left Arches in shambles from his climbing of Delicate Arch, and you'd better believe that the BLM is keeping an eye on this type of stuff.


you sir, are an idiot.

edited: i am trying be less harsh around here, soooo I will ask nicely, is Arches really in shambles because of Dean?? No. Do you really think Dean's SOLO of Delicate Arch (and subsequent rappel) left those massive rope grooves that the media blamed him for?? No. Are most of us over it, more than 5 years later? Yes. Is Arches' climbing plan and system working just fine? Yes.

Do I think this falsely advertised viral video of a silly little rope swing is fairly dumb? Absolutely. If people start doing this often, the BLM will step in. Then maybe these kid's will go climbing.


FLAG


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