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Worlds largest rope swing?
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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Mar 3, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life
mobley wrote:
Dont sweat it Austin, I'd be kissing and dancing a lot too if I was a virgin in my twenties.


30. I just look real young; I think it's my haircut.

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By Hockman
Mar 11, 2012
Happy Turk!!
This is both highly unethical and highly unsafe.

It's definitely a cool "feel good" video and I do appreciate that aspect, but this Arch is a beautiful landmark and formation which locals of this area, like myself, value and cherish deeply.

I liked this video the first time I saw it, but as I watched again I viewed the video more objectively. This is borderline reckless behavior and I find this to be insulting to both the Arch and nature itself.

Does anyone else feel similar?



It's also too bad that something like this gets so much attention and popularity.

Dean Potter practically got exiled from the Moab area for his free solo and photographing of Delicate Arch. His team at most left tiny, 1/2 inch rope scars on the arch itself. Why? Because it was in a national park.

Even though this Arch is on BLM land or "public land" and not a national park, ethics are still a huge issue (OBVIOUSLY), and my argument is the unethics of the entire set up and even more so the film. As I write this, now over 8 million people have seen the video, and how many of them are fired up about trying this themselves?? A good chance there is a damn fair amount of them. Maybe a few hundred people? A thousand perhaps?

And of course the BLM could make this illegal, but people may still try to poach it. My point is, this film could do more harm than good. Sorry, Devin, and the rest of the crew. I know it seemed cool, but there are larger issues at stake here and you could have done some serious damage. Honestly, think about it. (And I am speaking all these words as a local. Please hear me out. This arch and that wilderness mean something deeply to me. It's not your home is it?)

This is not only doing potentially much more damage to this arch than Dean may have done to Delicate, but it is reckless behavior which is spread to a MUCH wider audience than Dean's climb.

I know that all may sound harsh, but aside from the emotional "feel good" aspect of the video, there is fact, consequence, and logic of the rope swing which must not be ignored.

-Matt

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By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Mar 11, 2012
Colonel Mustard
Matt Hockman wrote:
This viral video is frankly, embarrassing.


It's definitely cheesy. I'm sure the swing is fun as hell, but the db quotient is high. Like, the whole time I was looking for the Mountain Dew logo to make its appearance, or maybe the Will Smith-esque posi hip hop song morphs into the Juicy Fruit anthem.

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By Harry Dorcy
From Denver, CO
Mar 12, 2012
I can't really understand the hate this video is getting from fellow climbers. Good song, good friends, great scenery, good-looking girls, and a little bit of funny dancing. And if we were there, I'll bet 99% of us would have said, "Hey guys, I've got my harness here, mind if I take a quick jump?" Furthermore, I imagine the magnitude of the rigging, combined with the risk if you do it wrong, will minimize repeat attempts and any cumulative damage to the arch.

Lighten up and have some fun, y'all!

PS - Congratulations, Austin!

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By Richard Fernandez
From Flagstaff, AZ
Mar 12, 2012
Crack Test Dummies EPC
... mighty big rope swing.


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By Ian Stewart
Mar 15, 2012
I don't really understand all the hate either, but I've pretty much come to expect that no matter what you do on climbing forums somebody isn't going to like it.

Great video, jealous I wasn't there, and congrats on the engagement.

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By Ryan A. Ray
From Keller, TX
Mar 23, 2012
Hanging out on the Titan in the Fisher Towers, Uta...
Very well said Matt. I agree that this these publicity stunts do nothing more than hurt the outdoor community. These sort of activities may not have been on the BLM's radar before..but rest assured that it probably is now due to such massive attention. There are more people than you think out there who do not like this type of activity and would happily pressure the BLM to restrict access and activities like this.

So if something does come down the wire in the near future i hope that the makers of this video can be proud of themselves for ruining a good thing for many others.

I have been visiting and climbing in the Moab region for many years now. When I did first come, you could expect solitude just about everywhere you went to climb. Now the Moab region is so incredibly popular that it has become increasingly more important for us to tread lightly. The more attention we get...the more rules they make. Thats not a good thing for us as climbers and outdoor enthusiasts.

I fear it wont be long before the days of freedom on BLM land is gone or severely restricted.

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By PosiDave
Mar 26, 2012
So climbers like to complain about dangerous hobbies that leave the same impact as climbing on the same land?

-Bolts
-Rope
-Falling
-Cheap beer
- Bright colored soft shells

Not just the rope swing video. but alot of stuff: Base Jumping, Highlining, Climbing (mostly free soloing, but "ethic debates"), They aren't causing more harm to the enviroment than a group of pebble wrestlers/sport climbers/ bolt installers/ piton hammer dudes.

No one is dead and if they were that is their own problem and anyone who thinks they should restrict what others can have as hobbies because they are "dangerous" should stick to climbing into/out of bed.

I am pretty sure Honnolds free solo/ Dean Potter or even better Sketchy Andy base jumping/highlining on that land is the same. As for damage. Go yell at all the idiots who have fires/ ignore established trails/ have dogs/ dump in the outdoors. They are just as bad or worse.

Not to quote New Hampshire. But Live free or die. Just because you may not have the balls to solo/rope jump/ base jump doesn't mean you should have any place in deciding what should be legal. Climbing (your hobby) is just as dangerous and destructive if not more.

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By Ryan A. Ray
From Keller, TX
Mar 26, 2012
Hanging out on the Titan in the Fisher Towers, Uta...
I personally said nothing about the impacts of these activities on the environment, rock, danger level, etc. I do agree that all outdoor activities...rock climbing included leave impacts on the land. Anyone who participates in the outdoors leaves some sort of impact. Footprints, plant damage, rock damage, erosion, trash, bolts, and way way to much more to name.

I do think its extremely important for us all to minimize our impact as much as we can in order to preserve the environment...and our continued future access.

My opposition was not necessarily towards the activity of rope swinging....because I have done similar activities...but i do not go posting videos to youtube to draw attention to it.

My opposition is more towards the drawing attention to it. The BLM may not care that this takes place at the moment, but with more attention, accidents, and increased impacts, they may change their minds. Do your research around the nation and you will see that it has already happened in many other areas. Dean Potter and Arches as mentioned above for one. It only takes one person to make things more difficult for others.

Throwing something like this out there on the web to say "HEY...LOOK AT WHAT I DID!" Draws attention. Both positive and negative. Especially when it receives so much attention like this video did. The negative is where my concern is. It only takes a few negative opinions to cause problems.

Its fine and dandy to get out there and enjoy life. I absolutely agree. I enjoy the risk involved in climbing and the other outdoor activities i enjoy, and have accepted the fact that I likely may die doing it. Keeping a low profile and not broadcasting it to the world helps prevent your activity from causing problems for others. I do not want anything I do to cause someone else to loose their right or freedom to do it.

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By Finn the Human
From The Land of Ooo
Mar 26, 2012
Mathematical!
Corona Arch isn't on BLM land. Don't believe me? Here's their contact info, call 'em up and ask.

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By Ryan A. Ray
From Keller, TX
Mar 26, 2012
Hanging out on the Titan in the Fisher Towers, Uta...
you are absolutely correct...It is Utah state land...but that still changes nothing. It does not change the fact that it still creates a negative image for the outdoor community, the Utah state lands administration and the BLM because they are receiving thousands of phone calls a day about it.

Even if its not on BLM land..its attention has been brought to the BLM in a negative light and Its attention has been brought to the Utah State lands in a negative light. Thats not good for us long term as rules and regulations will likely change now for both BLM and State lands.

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By PosiDave
Mar 26, 2012
So every outdoor company shouldn't publish images and no magazines should exist in fear that "the man" will take away the right to use this land. I am sure this 2:55 minute video gives less attention to these hobbies than Five.Ten, Prana, and climbing mag and lastly this website. Mountain Project has plenty of views per day and def. more than that video. So that statement is clearly based on the biased of interest and intent.

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By PosiDave
Mar 26, 2012
comment wasn't just toward you. People are hating on the guy because he had a mildly cheesy video about rope jumping put up on Youtube and it blew up.

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By Ryan A. Ray
From Keller, TX
Mar 26, 2012
Hanging out on the Titan in the Fisher Towers, Uta...
PosiDave wrote:
So every outdoor company shouldn't publish images and no magazines should exist in fear that "the man" will take away are rights to use this land. I am sure this 2:55 minute video gives less attention to these hobbies than Five.Ten, Prana, and climbing mag and lastly this website. Mountain Project has plenty of views per day and def. more than that video. So that statement is clearly based on the biased of interest and intent.



nope, didnt say that at all. Five Ten, Prana, climbing mag, this website, etc has a targeted audience. You tubes audience is much much broader.

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By Ryan A. Ray
From Keller, TX
Mar 26, 2012
Hanging out on the Titan in the Fisher Towers, Uta...
PosiDave wrote:
comment wasn't just toward you. People are hating on the guy because he had a mildly cheesy video about rope jumping put up on Youtube and it blew up.



Oh i know, and im not condemning the video. i thought it was very well done...minus the music and cheesy personality accents. Would have been much better without that..but thats not my concern. Everyone has their own tastes.

I have a different background working with climbing coalitions..the access fund...environmental conservation organizations....etc, and I have seen first hand what kinds of issues are created by public attention to things like this, and we have had to work hard to reverse those negative impacts. (FYI...these are my personal opinions and not those of the groups and orgs i mentioned above.)

Yes its the 21st century, and mainstream media is the wave of the present and probably future..but that does not mean it does not create certain bad situations for all communities. Yes magazines, ads, tv commercials..etc have caused harm as well. Its going to happen, but the best way we can prevent it on our own level is to maintain a low profile.

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By PosiDave
Mar 26, 2012
But a magazine sitting on a shelf in Barnes and Noble isn't just as accessible to the general public? and findign that video amongst youtube is just as likely as someone walking into a climbing gym and googling five ten for shoes. Pretty sure Pranas targeted audience is 40+ yoga moms so what does that have to do with freesolos or highlining?

Patagonia and TNF have targeted audience? Pretty sure every 16 year old girl logs on and thinks that Denali jacket is gonna make them be able to freesolo 5.12. So his video should hardly get shit. I am pretty sure the rich people surfing the web aren't sitting on youtube looking at videos and would be more likely to stumble across this on a site like Patagonia, TNF, similar site.

If you have done any internet marketing research the chances of that video sticking around as long as a big corporation is nonexistant and it will be forgotten about in a few months. So if you people want to give someone a hardtime go tell the companies that promote the outdoors to stop with publishing images. Not some kid just trying to post a vido of him and his friends having a good time.

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By Ryan A. Ray
From Keller, TX
Mar 26, 2012
Hanging out on the Titan in the Fisher Towers, Uta...
im not talking about how long that video sticks around. Im talking about how many negative calls the BLM and UTAH state lands are receiving because of this video NOW...not next month. And then how many calls they will be receiving when the next big video or publicity stunt goes viral...and so on and so on. Eventually it will cause a change in policy. You don't think they are not already frustrated and fed up with the thousands of calls they are already getting?

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By the Oracle
From Delphi
Mar 26, 2012
mawiage
SICK - looks super fun.


@ everyone complaining about it-

1)Impact - no more than climbing

2)People will think it's cool - well oh noes!!!!1!




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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Mar 26, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life
Ryan A. Ray wrote:
My opposition was not necessarily towards the activity of rope swinging....because I have done similar activities...but i do not go posting videos to youtube to draw attention to it. My opposition is more towards the drawing attention to it.


Could you elaborate on this please? This is the attitude that confuses me the most. Most of the climbers on this site will gladly fork out money to watch Banff or Radical Reels films. These are films with large budgets that are marketed towards a national audience and that depict activities in which bolts are drilled, rocks are pulled off, and vegetation is trampled. In order for you to take the stance that you're taking, I only see a few possible arguments that you can make. They are:

1.) You oppose ANY sort of media or exposure that glorifies climbing, skiing, base jumping, etc. because it opens authorities' eyes to the possible destruction of resources as well as inspires other, unskilled people to try the activities and get hurt.

2.) You believe that my rope swing was somehow more destructive and more damaging than ANY other activities that you WOULD allow to be depicted in films, pictures, etc. Therefore, the extra risk of damage to resources outweighs my desire to make a Youtube video and it shouldn't be made.

3.) ......

The way I see it, the damage done to Corona is no more than the damage that you did to the Titan when YOU climbed it. So if our activity is no more damaging than climbing, why does the double standard exist? Why are climbing films glorified while mine is vilified? I guarantee you that more people have taken up climbing because of a film they watched than have jumped off Corona because of a 2:55 long Youtube video.

I don't mind that you disagree with my decision; what I DO mind is the logical inconsistency and double standards inherent in your opprobrium. Could you please explain this to me?

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By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Mar 26, 2012
Colonel Mustard
Harry Dorcy wrote:
I can't really understand the hate this video is getting from fellow climbers.


Well, it's not climbing.

Personally, I don't hate what they did, that they hang with pretty girls, or how fly their music is, I just think the video is damn cheesy.

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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Mar 26, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life
Ryan A. Ray wrote:
Yes magazines, ads, tv commercials..etc have caused harm as well. Its going to happen, but the best way we can prevent it on our own level is to maintain a low profile.



Who ought to "maintain a low profile"? ALL climbers? Should all climbers refrain from posting pictures, GoProing themselves (side note - do people climb topropes in climbing gyms anywhere else or is it just in Provo?), or making films for Banff etc.? Is this a standard you want to apply to everyone or just people whose activities fall outside of the "norm" established by the climbing community? BASE jumping, slacklining, etc...what activities are acceptable to film and distribute? Did you feel this outraged at Sketchy Andy's slacklining video this year? Are you concerned about hordes of people overrunning the deserts to set up highlines, drilling bolts for highline anchors, or getting acces closed down?

I recognize that the scenarios are different and that the rope swing is more accessible and more stimulating, so I'm wondering if you draw a line in the sand at ALL activities or if you take them on a case-by-case basis.

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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Mar 26, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life
Ryan A. Ray wrote:
it still creates a negative image for the outdoor community, the Utah state lands administration and the BLM because they are receiving thousands of phone calls a day about it.



Thousands of phone calls a day? Evidence please.

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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Mar 26, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life
David Sahalie wrote:
I can see both sides of this argument, and it is an argument worth having. i do see how a rope swing vid that goes viral could get more yahoos, more yahoos equals more ptoential for accidents, more accidents equals access issues. all the other vids and companies mentioned are a red-herring. those are, as mentioned, are for a target audience that has some context for the sport. doing a rope swing, usually over a body of water, is activity many can relate too, and therefore could make yahoos think they can do it safely. a climbing vid is less accessible because there is gear, ropes, funny shoes, etc.



THIS argument is a persuasive one. (and the only persuasive one I've heard). I considered it long and hard before we made the video but ultimately decided that people are responsible for their own actions that that we can't base our decisions off of a prediction of how other people MIGHT respond. At the end of the day, if a bunch of yahoos buy a rope from Harbor Freight and use some keychain carabiners, THEY made the decision to do it.

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By Ryan A. Ray
From Keller, TX
Mar 26, 2012
Hanging out on the Titan in the Fisher Towers, Uta...
Austin Baird wrote:
Thousands of phone calls a day? Evidence please.



call them and ask..you will see.

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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Mar 26, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life
Old Custer wrote:
Well, it's not climbing. Personally, I don't hate what they did, that they hang with pretty girls, or how fly their music is, I just think the video is damn cheesy.



I'll also concede this point. It's damned cheesy - but it wasn't made for climbers. If we had made the video for climbers it would have been 15 minutes of us arguing about the best way to rig the anchor, followed by 4 hours of an ethical debate on whether or not we should do it, 3 hours of argument about whether the bolts were necessary or if the swing would have gone on trad gear, 2 hours of people telling us about swings they did that were WAY COOLER, and then someone calling us a bunch of pansies because Dan Osman was way more badass, and then we would have decided not to do it at all because we couldn't remember how long we were supposed to let sandstone dry out after a rain. The video would have sucked.

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