Winter Climbing in Southern California

Hello,

I'm currently writing a screenplay. I live in Florida and am not a climber,but some of my characters need to be climbing in Southern California in January.
I need to know of some routes that can be done that time of year that have at least 2 pitches if not more.

My characters will be simul climbing. A friend of theirs who lives in the area will be teaching them how to do this and/or helping them refine their technique.

I originally wanted them to do this at Joshua Tree because I love the area and think it'd look great in film, but now I see it probably won't work there.

I plan to visit my parents in Palm Springs this winter, so it'd be great for me if there are some routes within about 100 miles of that area so I can do better research on them this winter.

I would really appreciate some suggestions. Thanks so much for your help.

-Miss Roni

You can put them i in Joshua Tree, on the climb "Walk On the Wild Side," which has stymied a few in routefinding over the years(it is 3 pitches). Here is the link to the route: mountainproject.com/v/walk-…

And yes, you should hire a guide and have them take you out on that route. Why simulclimbing, if I may ask? There are certainly easier and more believable ways to die, though simuls epicing on WOtWS has it's own brand of quanitness....(kidding, sort of).

Don't know if your two main climbers are beginners. If so, you usu don't teach beginners to simul-climb. Beginners usu need to be taught and do plenty of single pitches first, then do plenty of multi-pitches, to become fairly experienced themselves before incorporating simul-climbing as well, usu to speed things up on multi's.

Generally, when simul-ing, the less experienced climber leads and therefore should already be competent at placing gear (and route finding), but now willing to place them farther apart on comfortable terrain. And the more experienced and more solid climber follows, bec the second absolutely can not fall when simul-ing, bec that would immediately yank the leader off and pull leader toward each piece to impact the wall, imparting the combined force of two falling climbers onto any placed gear, which likely would not hold. It's usu a grissly mess, barring some miracle. Seconding in simul-climbing is actually more tasking than free-soloing, bec not only you can't fall, you also have to match pace to manage slack, clean gear, and carry extra gear. The leader shouldn't fall either. Though runout gear should still catch one falling climber, counterweighed by the second, it would still be a long ugly tumble.

An instructor along on the climb to teach the two what to do, that also wouldn't be the best way to go about that. Two fairly experienced leaders learning to simul-climb wouldn't need that. They just have to be ok with more runout leading, with being the second and to not fall. Each on lead has the option of stopping to set anchor whenever low on gear, or whenever an unexpectedly challenging section is encountered and requires pitching that section out. Like, is your instructor going to freesolo near them and shout instructions at them? Or is the instructor going to tie in last with them as a strung out party of 3, shouting instructions far and farther above? Or is the instructor supposed to lead and the two beginner simul'ers to follow? In real life, I've actually heard one bonehead telling another beginner that simul-climbing is still pretty safe bec it would be ok for the second to fall, which of course is the complete opposite of the one most important thing to know about simul-ing, and utterly asinine, and deadly.

100-mi radius from Palm Springs is pretty restrictive. I understand that's where you could drive to check places out yourself. But that's less than an hr and a half on freeways. Many climbers nowadays drive plenty farther than that to go climb. If you're ok with extending that out, there're Corte Madera near San Diego and Red Rock outside Vegas (practically part of SoCal, really), both with long multi's in winter sun.

I used to date a woman who was writing a screenplay. It amazed me how many of her screenwriting friends wanted climbing in their screenplays though they knew nothing about the sport. Not that it really matters. Hollywood has yet to put anything even remotely accurate on screen.

Someone had to do it...

Don't let your screenplay become one of these :-)

youtube.com/watch?v=uxtg7ra…

I would make sure you have a long conversation with an experienced alpine climber to make sure you grasp the uses of simul climbing as I think you are in danger here of committing a The Boy Next Door - first edition of the Iliad mistake.

Simul climbing COULD be used as a cool plot device for a climbing movie. Two climbers looking to push the limit of what is possible (speed records maybe) and taking gnarly falls on simul (when the second falls it can yank the leader off the rock and dangerously down into the protection).

But only could this be cool if it's correctly set up that what these climbers are doing is taking a technique that is only meant for very easy terrain, where falling is not an option, and then extrapolating it into a Russian roulette of sorts. It's not super realistic, but it could potentially happen as the sport progresses and risk acceptance changes. There may be some people already doing something similar but not likely on any truly difficult terrain.

The place in SoCal the climbers would be practicing this is at Tahquitz or perhaps since this is a movie... At the nearby Suicide Rock.
mountainproject.com/v/tahqu…

Side note: if anyone wants to give me the true scoop on the Lodestar Lightning events with first hand info... Now that's a screenplay I would like to write and could probably sell. :)

Happiegrrrl
Thanks so much for the info. Seriously searched the routes and somehow missed that one. It's not like there were that many to search through...!

Sean and Rob Gordon
The info you've provided is very helpful. I can't thank you enough.

Here's the deal with the simul climb: I wanted my main character to witness someone sacrifice their life for someone else. It's an important but very short part of the film. Something that makes an impression on him, but the movie's not about rock climbing.

I consulted a climber about how to set a situation up in which both climbers were about to die. One of them would figure out a way to save their partner, but it would mean sacrificing her own life. The only thing we could come up with at the time was simul climbing.

For story purposes, my main character needs to be climbing in CA in January. Joshua Tree is important not only because it’s convenient for me for research, but It’s also a location I really want my main character’s friend to be at the time.
I really wrestled with the simul climb idea because I know it's primarily an alpine thing. I thought I could solve the problem with the back story being that the two climbers are into speed climbing. They happen to be in the same area with the third person at the time, so they go out to climb that day and work on their speed while they’re at it. Because it’s a back story, the audience wouldn’t know that’s what the trio is up to when they witness the event. However, this information will be revealed to them later.
I threw the third person in there as a way to allow for dialog between the second and someone else, because the leader is going to become unconscious.
Maybe instead of him being there to instruct the pair, maybe he's just there to time them? Would that work?
The lead in this scene would become careless as he moves quickly up the rock and not place as much protection as he should in order for them to be safe. Something will cause him to fall and what little protection he does place will fail because the protection is too few and far between. By the end of his fall, he's fallen past the second and left unconscious and dangling off the rock with one cam between him and the second. The last cam’s about to fail as well. That's when the second comes up with the plan to try to save her partner.

They'd be close enough to the ground that she can shout to the third person and tell him what she's about to do. My main character and the guy he's climbing with will witness all of this and try to solo up the rock in time to save them both, if possible, but their attempts will fail.

Is this even plausible? I know climbers watching it would go crazy, because they wouldn't know the back story and would be "There's no way they'd simul climb there!" But the general public most likely wouldn't know the difference and the back story would eventually come out.

What do you think? Would this scene work or is it too full of my being clueless?

Kent Richards,
LOL!!! I see what you mean. Thanks for posting that. I know it's pretty crazy over the top and as far as the sacrifice part, it felt way too close to what I'm writing. Not the first time that's happened!

If this ever makes it to the silver screen, it has potential to become the most epic MP thread in history. Good luck, I'm sure you're going to get lots of good plot suggestions shortly.

Aside from WOTWS, which is bolted, albeit runout, if you want cams or stopper failures on a multi and really really want it to be in Joshua Tree, the 2-3 pitch routes on Lost Horse Wall might suit better, and that gets winter sun. There's also Right On near WOTWS, in north facing shade, if your simul-climbers are into practicing speed climbing in puffies and with numb fingertips in Jan.

Miss Roni wrote:Maybe instead of him being there to instruct the pair, maybe he's just there to time them? Would that work?

Or there to take photos. Or just there to watch them climb, bec he likes them so much.

Miss Roni wrote:The last cam is about to fail as well.

Movies tend to play up the shifting cam with slipping noises to make the audience cringe, but in reality, that second wouldn't be able to actually see a cam failure coming like that. When cams fail, they just pop right out, and that would be the first instant you would know of its failure. While the lone cam still holds, she could be concerned that they're both dangling on one piece, figures that she ought to do something, but that would still just be guessing that the piece might fail. Would one really go straight to self-sacrifice based on just that, while they're still both dangling and both alive? Does she take the self-sacrificing action before the lone piece actually pops out, which would leave the audience to wonder if that piece might've held just fine and that she didn't really need to die? Maybe more sensible to stay put and scream for help, try to anchor herself in place with the gear she had cleaned so far, so that both of them might get rescued.

Miss Roni wrote:Is this even plausible? ... What do you think? Would this scene work or is it too full of my being clueless?

The mishap situ could be plausible, but whether this scene would work depends also on how plausible that self-sacrificing action is, on whether that would make sense as a solution to the problem.

Sean,
Thank you for taking the time to share such helpful information.
And thanks to the rest of you as well for the route suggestions and helpful advice.
I want the screenplay to be as accurate as possible, but was pretty bummed that it means not being able to write the scene the way I see it in my head.
Then a few things occurred to me: What Fat Dad said, “Hollywood has yet to put anything even remotely accurate on screen.”
And what you said, Sean, “Movies tend to play up the shifting cam with slipping noises to make the audience cringe…"
And then the movie clip Kent Richards posted showing protection that’s “about” to fail.
If the shifting cam scenes are what the public is accustomed to seeing, presumably by now they’ve been somewhat “taught” that this can happen and would probably just take it for granted. And maybe the climbing community would “suspend belief” for the scene for the sake of a good story. Just some things I need to think about before I rewrite the whole thing!
Thanks again for your help and I’ll let you know if this ever does make it to the silver screen.

check out these areas too

mountainproject.com/v/el-ca…

mountainproject.com/v/eagle…

Plenty of routes at Tahquitz/Suicide that would fit the bill. Suicide is often climbed in winter, Tahquitz as well depending on the amount of snow we've got so far that winter. More alpine setting (see: Joshua Tree is lame)

http://mountainproject.com/v/surprise/105788042

Miss Roni,

Google Peter Terbush

Didn't see James's post above me. This is the same as his suggestion.

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Maybe consider rockfall hitting the belayer?

There was a very sad case of major rockfall in Yosemite where a belayer was killed by tons of rockfall maintaining his belay.

Here is a link to the AAC account.

publications.americanalpine…

Good luck with your project.

Miss Roni. I am a writer/director, mostly independent stuff but have had scripts get attention around town with the major studios, and my advice would be to be more original than settling for basically a complete copy of a scene from another (and a not very good one) movie.

It's not even a good copy because your protagonists are, from what I understand, not directly involved in the incident. They are watching it second hand.

Strive to be original, fresh, and honest. Only settle for "well it's a movie so the audience will suspend disbelief" when absolutely necessary.

You've had some good advice offered here and yet you seem keen to ignore it because it's not what you already had in mind. Trust your audience. If one person offers a critique, maybe it's just their opinion, but when a slew of people offer the same critique your script is probably flawed.

Heck.... Just have your subjects going for the speed Winter ascent of the Vampire..... that could go really wrong.

Luck with the movie deal.

Suspension of disbelief is ok, until that gets more and more far-fetched. Vertical Limit is a farce (sorry to any diehard fans), as commonly perceived, climbing-wise, and in other ways. Be like that, or not. It's your story. Write it however you want. Think tho that VL clip is meant to show what not to do, not what's ok to copy. But of course you could take after VL as much as you like. You wanted pointers on various accuracies, and got. Stick to what you already have in mind, or consider other possibly better circumstances that might be more convincing for self-sacrifice, in climbing or other activities.

And this isn't nec climbing related. "Carelessness," as attributed to the lead climber, is pretty damning, like stupidity, like it's his own stupid fault. Why would the second want to sacrifice herself for, essentially, a screw-up? I understand love is the greatest, that, say, even tho he effed up, bec the second just loves him so much, she would sacrifice herself and die, so he could live, so, uh, so he could live on and get into more careless fiascos. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't sacrifice myself for another's nincompoopourri. I mean, I'm open to the self-sacrifice thing, but wouldn't be for that.

Creative work is not easy. I do root for you.

Miss Roni wrote:maybe the climbing community would “suspend belief” for the scene for the sake of a good story.

Well, I doubt that the climbing community would suspend belief like that. All my climbing peers would say, if it's not accurate (technically, as in "believable"), then it's not a good story... That's why parodies like the the clip I posted are created: people go into the "Puhleeze... That would never happen!" mode.

The climbing community is also often at odds with law enforcement, landowners, and the general public for access and resource allocation, and generally doesn't want to be portrayed as a bunch of dufuses. While there are plenty of dufus climbers, I'd go out on a limb and say that the community as a whole would rather movies be technically accurate and show our best side.

But then, the climbing community is a pretty small part of the movie-going demographic.

If you want self-sacrifice, think about something like bivying on top of Whitney on a freezing cold night, with one climber dying from hypothermia from being on the outside of the huddle to keep the other climber warm.

Or maybe: two climbers allergic to bees, but with only one Epipen between them?

Or, the true story of a belayer holding his post while a massive rockfall buries him (edit: Link posted above by JWong).

You need to go watch "Touching the Void" ..... no need to dream up some stupid scenario that would never happen.

I do not think you understand real climbing.

Luck with movie

what about a climber that goes on a solo mission and falls into a crack and gets his leg stuck...only way to survive is cutting his leg...let's say he was stuck there for 3 days and call it "72 hours"