Will an ATC actually damage my dynamic rope when rappelling down it?

I'm a little confused on this subject and where I originally heard this from. But from what I recall someone told me rappelling down my dynamic rope with an ATC ( black diamond ATC ) can damage the sheath.

Adding onto this, most people say you should avoid lowering off the chain links when cleaning an anchor because it can weaken the links. The problem is if I don't want to lower off the links and decide to rap down, won't I damage my rope with the ATC instead?

looking for some information to clear up what I've heard in the past.

For reference

rope: rei.com/product/871882/pmi-…
ATC: blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

Grant,

I'm worried about you, if you are asking questions like these. Do you have a mentor you go climbing with? Someone that can teach you the basics?

Rappelling on a dynamic rope with an ATC is fine. Period.

FrankPS wrote:Grant, I'm worried about you, if you are asking questions like these. Do you have a mentor you go climbing with? Someone that can teach you the basics? Rappelling on a dynamic rope with an ATC is fine. Period.

Thanks frank, I'm not sure where I heard this myth from but that clears it up.

I was worried because I ended up rappelling down after cleaning last weekend to avoid running the rope against a rock edge, but later that day I remembered what someone had said to me about ATC's ruining the ropes sheath. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to ruin my rope.

An ATC will not damage a rope, unless the ATC itself is damaged and has a sharp edge or something like that.

It depends on the situation, but usually, it is safer, faster, and easier to be lowered through the rap rings/chains after cleaning a top rope anchor.

Learn how to safely clean an anchor and rap from your climbs. It saves anchors for future climbers. please and thank you

here we go with the old lower/rap argument.

That didn't take long

Is there any argument AGAINST rappelling? Or do people just argue lowering is more efficient easier? Didn't mean to start an argument lol, just wanted to clear a myth up.

Grant Mercer wrote:Is there any argument AGAINST rappelling? Or do people just argue lowering is more efficient easier? Didn't mean to start an argument lol, just wanted to clear a myth up.

If you're sincere, you'll delete this thread.

Otherwise, it's a thinly veiled troll. There are countless threads, full of arguments on both sides, about rappelling and lowering.

Ball's in your court, "Grant".

tradvlad wrote:It depends on the situation, but usually, it is safer, faster, and easier to be lowered through the rap rings/chains after cleaning a top rope anchor.

Yeah, don't do this. Lowering wears out the anchor hardware. Once critically worn, someone has to replace that hardware. At best, just a piece of the anchor can be replaced (e.g. a quicklink). At worst, the entire anchor has to be replaced (e.g. Fixe hangers w/ built-in rap rings).

Unless you are the one doing the replacing (or at least contributing to a fund), lowering off anchors is effectively spending someone else's money.

As others have said, take the time to learn how to clean and rap safely and quickly. With a bit of practice, it can be just as quick and safe as a lower-off.

The only exception to this might be sport areas that have chosen to install mussy hooks (open hooks that don't require you to untie and retie your knot). Others may disagree, but I generally interpret the presence of mussy hooks as permission to lower off.

And remember, a huge chunk of the total accidents occur during the descent (rappel or lower). Be careful.

Yes, the ATC will damage the rope; a tiny bit each time. It is called normal wear. Your rope will receive a lot more wear just from running over the rock though.

As far as the chain links go: Yes, lowering will wear the links more than rapping and pulling the rope, but if they are set up as sport anchors and the chain is heavy duty (and usually with an easily replaceable part like a a quicklink or clippy at the wear point), the advantages of the last person lowering generally out way worrying about wear. The anchors are meant to be used and replaced. See the many previous threads and the School of Rock articles here.

There are countless pages of discussion one way and the other, see these links:

mountainproject.com/v/lower…

mountainproject.com/v/lower…

outdoors.stackexchange.com/…

Basic key point summary:

1) ALWAYS COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR BELAYER! Preferably decide and verbally communicate with your partner before you leave the ground which one you are doing. Lots of (fatal) accidents happen because people are taken off belay at the wrong time.

2) Everything else is less important, and depends on the gear setup at the top, the number of pitches, the steepness of the climb, etc.

YER GUNNA DIE!!!

Y'all got trolled. Not even a good one.

wfscot wrote: Yeah, don't do this. Lowering wears out the anchor hardware. Once critically worn, someone has to replace that hardware. At best, just a piece of the anchor can be replaced (e.g. a quicklink). At worst, the entire anchor has to be replaced (e.g. Fixe hangers w/ built-in rap rings). Unless you are the one doing the replacing (or at least contributing to a fund), lowering off anchors is effectively spending someone else's money. As others have said, take the time to learn how to clean and rap safely and quickly. With a bit of practice, it can be just as quick and safe as a lower-off. The only exception to this might be sport areas that have chosen to install mussy hooks (open hooks that don't require you to untie and retie your knot). Others may disagree, but I generally interpret the presence of mussy hooks as permission to lower off. And remember, a huge chunk of the total accidents occur during the descent (rappel or lower). Be careful.

How did I guess you were going to be a gumby 5.10 climber.

Greg D wrote:Y'all got trolled. Not even a good one.

I've often wondered about trolling on climbing sites. Is it possible to be truly trolled on a climbing site? It starts with someone asking a possibly silly non offensive question (which would count low on any measure of internet trolling), we all see it as a general question, not a personal attack, and then, and this is the key bit, often lots of good stuff comes out that the troll already knew, but others might not. And then we all wander off topic anyhow.

So, each time someone trolls by pointing to a DMM video and asks "will I die if I knot a dynema sling", I just assume that at least one person who reads the thread might learn something. In many ways trolling of this from on climbing sites plays the same roll as "questions from readers" do in magazines where it is obvious the staff of the magazine are writing the questions.

Guess I'm feeling positive this morning.

One of the best trolls we had of late in the UK was someone just mentioning in passing that he was thankful to the person who had placed a bolt on the crux of a route he had just climbed because it was raining when he got to the otherwise unprotected move. The route was a very famous one on a remote, difficult to access, sea cliff. Hence lots of people were pissed off and in the end the president of our national climbing association heads down to Cornwall and raps down to remove the bolt. Only there was no bolt. Now that's a real troll.

you just gotta rap as fast as possible and get that baby cookin so you can light up with your atc when you get down

I purchased a new Edelrid rope and was reading through all the documentation that came with it. They suggest that when rappelling you should avoid speed rappelling because the excessive heat can glass the sheath. This gives you a hard spot on the rope and potentially leads to more rope damage in the area.

David Coley wrote:One of the best trolls we had of late in the UK was someone just mentioning in passing that he was thankful to the person who had placed a bolt on the crux of a route he had just climbed because it was raining when he got to the otherwise unprotected move. The route was a very famous one on a remote, difficult to access, sea cliff. Hence lots of people were pissed off and in the end the president of our national climbing association heads down to Cornwall and raps down to remove the bolt. Only there was no bolt. Now that's a real troll.

Thats awesome. We just like to argue, no one actually climbs on this site.

wfscot wrote: Yeah, don't do this. Lowering wears out the anchor hardware. Once critically worn, someone has to replace that hardware. At best, just a piece of the anchor can be replaced (e.g. a quicklink). At worst, the entire anchor has to be replaced (e.g. Fixe hangers w/ built-in rap rings). Unless you are the one doing the replacing (or at least contributing to a fund), lowering off anchors is effectively spending someone else's money. As others have said, take the time to learn how to clean and rap safely and quickly. With a bit of practice, it can be just as quick and safe as a lower-off. The only exception to this might be sport areas that have chosen to install mussy hooks (open hooks that don't require you to untie and retie your knot). Others may disagree, but I generally interpret the presence of mussy hooks as permission to lower off. And remember, a huge chunk of the total accidents occur during the descent (rappel or lower). Be careful.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, where did you learn that it's better to rap off sport routes to preserve the chains?

To make it clear, I COMPLETELY disagree, am pretty much COMPLETELY set in my lower off ways, am COMPLETELY OK with you getting down in whatever fashion suits you, but am curious where this rap off belief arises.

Not only does rappelling reduce chain wear, it reduces the amount of twist put into the rope.

Mark E Dixon wrote: Just to satisfy my own curiosity, where did you learn that it's better to rap off sport routes to preserve the chains? To make it clear, I COMPLETELY disagree, am pretty much COMPLETELY set in my lower off ways, am COMPLETELY OK with you getting down in whatever fashion suits you, but am curious where this rap off belief arises.

You're kidding. Right?