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Wild Country Krab issue?
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By Ian Buckley
Aug 8, 2012

Not my Facebook post but it looks like a really potential issue regardless of the circumstances.



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3939829088347&set=a.>>>


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By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Aug 8, 2012

don't cross load your shit


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By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Aug 8, 2012
OTL

facebook wrote:
This particular biner was a wild country synergy keylock.


Well its definitely NOT a keylock, and not a current 'biner offered by WC www.wildcountry.co.uk/products/screwgate-karabiners/

Have to be damn sharp or weighted well to have cut that easily it seems.


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By Terry Parker
From Fort Collins, CO
Aug 8, 2012

Is that a Beal rope? If so, do you remember the model? It looks like mine that the core showed through after I pulled it through the anchors (without that much friction). Did not go back up to investigate what caused it.


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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Aug 8, 2012

looks like a Sterling Velocity.

no idea what happened there, but it doesnt look like any kind of issue other than someone doing something stupid with a locking carabiner.


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By generationfourth
From Irvine, CA
Aug 8, 2012

from the facebook page:

Attention all climbers!
This past weekend I was almost dropped 100' due to a flaw in my belay biner design. I was cleaning a route from a hanging anchor, and when I pulled rope through my atc to unweight my slings, the biner crossloaded and cut halfway through my rope on both strands. I will post a picture. The biner had a sharp edge on the back of the gate that extended beyond the nose. This particular biner was a wild country synergy keylock. I have contacted wild country and so far they have committed to replacing my gear, but they insist that the damage was done due to misuse. Either way, there is no way that a closed locking caribiner should have the ability to cut a rope, end of story.

I was cleaning a route in the Red River Gorge that had an anchor that caused you to hang away from the wall when cleaning. The problem came when I had to weight my rappel device. In order to weight the device, and take my slings out of the anchor, I had to grab a hold on the wall and pull rope through the atc as I got my hips closer to the wall. When this happened, the caribiner crossloaded and cut the rope with that sharp spot on the biner. The worst part was: I wasn't aware and actually took my slings out and rappelled to the ground. After pulling the rope, I found that my brand new sterling 9.8 velocity was cut in the middle of the rope, on both strands, where it came in contact with the biner.

Wild country is currently doing testing to replicate this, and are going to keep me in the loop. My point is this, there should not be any point on a caribiner that has the ability to cut a rope, even if it is weighted incorrectly.

Please share this to as many climbers as possible, and check your belay biners, I would hate to see this happen to anyone else!


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By Jeff Thomas
Aug 8, 2012

generationfourth wrote:
This particular biner was a wild country synergy keylock.



False


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By Kevin Connolly
From CO
Aug 9, 2012

dropped? while rappelling? sounds like another midwesterner in over their head looking for someone else to blame.


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By Eric Fjellanger
Aug 9, 2012
Me on top of Chianti Spire

From his description, it seems surprising a person could pull hard enough to shred a rope like that without noticing something was amiss.


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By Gunkiemike
Aug 9, 2012

I don't see how that moderate sheath damage would lead to a 100' fall.

EDIT - reading fail on my part; he said he ALMOST dropped 100 feet. He probably also almost got hit on the head by a falling boulder. Except no boulder fell, heh.


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By kennoyce
From Layton, UT
Aug 9, 2012
Climbing at the Gallery in Red Rocks

Gunkiemike wrote:
I don't see how that moderate sheath damage would lead to a 100' fall.


Just what I thought. That rope wasn't anywhere close to failing, he should retire it yes, but it isn't unsafe.

So the dude cross loaded the biner and damaged the sheath of his rope. This is NOT a new issue. Everyone I've climbed with has known for many years that a cross loaded biner can cut a rope sheath. It sounds like someone who doesn't know how to properly use his gear, I wouldn't think twice about using this "defective" biner.


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By Peter Schmalzried
Aug 9, 2012

This is the problem with the locker. Yes, crossloading can increase the chance of gear failure, but there is a very sharp and exposed part of the locker that can run against the rope. If this occurs with most biners, then it would be 100% belayer error, but I don't think I've seen this on other lockers.

WC Screwgate
WC Screwgate


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By Addison
From Boulder, CO
Aug 9, 2012
me at eldo

The rope couldn't hold the weight of the dude's belly in the background.


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By Malcolm Daly
From Boulder, CO
Aug 9, 2012

About 90% of carabiners--locking and non-locking--have sharp spots around the gate hinges that will hack a rope in a second.

Maybe manufactures should start warning people about the dangers of cross-loading carabiners.

Oh. Wait. They already do. And they have been doing that since the first person bent some aluminum into and oval and attached a gate.

Sorry about your rope.

Mal


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By Taylor Jenkins
Aug 9, 2012

I checked a few screw lockers from my gear bin. Some of them are sharper there than others and one C.A.M.P. biner was quite sharp. I don't think this is a Wild Country specific thing. Anyone who is truly worried about this could easily switch to keylock or autolockers where that area is covered. I personally prefer autolock for my rappel device anyway but if I used screw lock I don't think I would be too worried because I'm always vigilant against cross loading. I think this is operator error.


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By Taylor Jenkins
Aug 9, 2012

Malcolm beat me to it. I completely agree.


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By Mark Lewis
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Aug 9, 2012

kennoyce wrote:
Just what I thought. That rope wasn't anywhere close to failing, he should retire it yes, but it isn't unsafe. So the dude cross loaded the biner and damaged the sheath of his rope. This is NOT a new issue. Everyone I've climbed with has known for many years that a cross loaded biner can cut a rope sheath. It sounds like someone who doesn't know how to properly use his gear, I wouldn't think twice about using this "defective" biner.


In your opinion the rope isn't unsafe but you still recommend retiring it? Sounds like you're saying completely opposite things. The rope damage shown in the picture absolutely makes the rope unsafe for climbing use. Was I misunderstanding your point?


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By AKM1878
Aug 9, 2012

Mark Lewis wrote:
In your opinion the rope isn't unsafe but you still recommend retiring it? Sounds like you're saying completely opposite things. The rope damage shown in the picture absolutely makes the rope unsafe for climbing use. Was I misunderstanding your point?


The rope wouldn't have killed him or snapped under normal use in a rappel. There is no way I would lead on that rope though, which is why you should retire it. If you were high on a route and your rope looked like that you would use it the whole way down (with a puckered butt no doubt...)


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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Aug 9, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

Malcolm Daly wrote:
About 90% of carabiners--locking and non-locking--have sharp spots around the gate hinges that will hack a rope in a second. Maybe manufactures should start warning people about the dangers of cross-loading carabiners. Oh. Wait. They already do. And they have been doing that since the first person bent some aluminum into and oval and attached a gate. Sorry about your rope. Mal


Seems like they should also start rounding those edges to minimize the risk. Any mechanical reason that couldn't be done?


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By Mark Lewis
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Aug 9, 2012

Wow, you all are more ballsy than me! I would never rap (much less lead) on a rope with that type of sheath damage; not safe. If I were high on a route and noticed that massive sheath damage I wouldn't keep climbing on it hoping it would hold. I would probably figure out a way to bypass the damaged section (tie off the damaged section temporarily), or cut the damaged section out and bail off the route on a series of shorter raps or some such thing.

I agree with Crag, seems like manufacturers could design their gates without a sharp edge that can catch on the rope. Has me thinking about my 'biners, I'll have to check them out when I get home to see how many have that type of sharp edge in the gate area.


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By David Appelhans
From Lafayette
Aug 9, 2012
Imaginate

Most lockers are like that. My Petzl attache has the same "sharp" features on the hinge of the gate like shown in the pictures. This is on the bottom of the gate at the pivot point, not at the top which is a keylock.

1000's of people use their lockers all the time without shredding the rope, this is user error--don't cross load your biner.


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By Chad Wagner
Aug 9, 2012
me

Dude!!! This is America! Its called a biner!


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Aug 9, 2012
Bocan

Addison wrote:
The rope couldn't hold the weight of the dude's belly in the background.


haha...is that a half shirt?


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By Aric Datesman
Aug 9, 2012

Or better yet, they could design climbers who know not to misuse their gear and end up cross loading their biners.

Btw, what ever happened to personal responsibility? Biners have been made this way for decades without much a problem, so why should the manufactures suddenly be responsible for actively preventing you from getting hurt when misusing the gear?


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By kennoyce
From Layton, UT
Aug 9, 2012
Climbing at the Gallery in Red Rocks

Mark Lewis wrote:
In your opinion the rope isn't unsafe but you still recommend retiring it? Sounds like you're saying completely opposite things. The rope damage shown in the picture absolutely makes the rope unsafe for climbing use. Was I misunderstanding your point?


Yes you are, the rope is perfectly fine for rapping and is not going to come anywhere near breaking under a body weight load (or even a lead fall for that matter). It does however need to be retired because of the sheath damage. A ropes strength is somethin like 80% core, 20% sheath, so even a figure eight knot will reduce the strength of the rope by about the same amount that damage will.


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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Aug 9, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

Aric Datesman wrote:
Or better yet, they could design climbers who know not to misuse their gear and end up cross loading their biners. Btw, what ever happened to personal responsibility? Biners have been made this way for decades without much a problem, so why should the manufactures suddenly be responsible for actively preventing you from getting hurt when misusing the gear?


Maybe I completely overlooked it but I do not recall ever reading or being told that I shouldn't cross load because it might result in rope damage. The warnings are in relation to the reduced strength.

And, regardless of whether the manufacturers are responsible (I don't think they are), why not make a change if it results in safer gear?


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